[NL2-NL10] Instructional sample hands #4

  • Poll
    • What is the right move here?

      • 17
        Bet $3
        45%
      • 13
        Bet $2
        34%
      • 5
        Check
        13%
      • 3
        Bet $4
        8%
      • 0
        Fold
        0%
      Total: 38 Votes
    • Puschkin81
      Puschkin81
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2006 Posts: 4,786
      The topic of today’s instructional sample hand is semi-bluffing on the flop.

      0.50/1 No-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)

      Stack sizes:
      All players (100BB)

      Preflop: Hero is BU with J:diamond: , 8:diamond:
      2 folds, CO calls $1.00, Hero calls $1.00, SB calls $0.50, BB checks.

      Flop: ($4.00) 5:diamond: , 4:heart: , A:diamond: (4 players)
      SB checks, BB checks, CO checks, Hero ???
  • 8 replies
    • undercover82
      undercover82
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.12.2006 Posts: 813
      i like betting my draws especially in position , first to possibly get them to fold , and 2nd to make the pot bigger in case i hit. I would bet like 3$ here.

      An ace would have prolly bet here before us , so i think theres a decent fold equity.
    • Mugge88
      Mugge88
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.10.2006 Posts: 510
      These hands in unraised pots gives you a decicion on every flop - especially when checked to IP. You must consider a few things:
      1. The flop texture
      2. Amount of players in the hand
      3. Your hand
      4: Your opponents
      5: Your fold equity
      6: Which action now? - if bet, which amount?

      There are probably more, but these are all I can think of as I write this, will add more if I find something.. Now to answering my questions, I will use the posted hand as an example:

      1: This flop is partly coordinated - It got a flush draw and an unlikely straight (draw), with only one high card.

      2: 3 players besides you - you are last to act

      3: Flush draw - not the nut draw, but still a quite strong hand if you hit one of your outs

      4: This is of course individual - You should note how far the villains tend to go with their draws, which hands they call down with, raise an unraised pot on the flop with and last but not least, how often they fold to a bet on the flop and how often they c/r.

      5: This can't be answered directly, but you must combine the answers in question 2 and 4 and try to estimate a value - on this board you got quite good FE generally since people witout an ace or the flush draw will nost likely fold their hands.

      6: You really only got two possible actions: bet or check, so letss look at the pros and cons of each:

      Pros:
      check:
      - 3 villains (which decreases the chance that you take down the pot directly)
      - You get to see the turn for free
      - You avoid getting c/r'ed

      bet:
      - You have a good chance of taking down the pot
      - You take the initiative
      - You start building up a pot (will be useful if you hit your draw)
      - You get information about how you stand
      - You will get some weaker hands out (maybe some stronger too).

      Well, I don't wanna list all the cons, most are obvious and you can already see that you gain alot more by betting out, so that will be our action here, now which amount? As always this depends on the board texture and as answered in q1, this flop is partly coordinated, which should make your bet around 3$ - Maybe a tad more, since we are 4 players at the flop, but still: Around 3$ would be the right thing to do.

      Now you may risk a c/r but I won't tell you what to do if thats the case right now, already wrote enough I think :)

      As always: I'm here to learn as well, so don't take my words for granted, but think it through yourself and come to your own conclusion :)

      Best regards,
      Mugge
    • ciRith
      ciRith
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      I bet 3$. If they fold.. fine.. if more than 2 call.. fine aswell because it's for value then. If only one calls I might get him off on the turn. And I can take a freecard on the turn aswell.... easy bet.
    • Qastorimon
      Qastorimon
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.07.2007 Posts: 412
      I voted 3$ as well, but (especially) because this sample hand is about (semi-) bluffing, I don't think you can give a real good answer without considering the stacksizes, the player stats and of course your own table image.
    • Puschkin81
      Puschkin81
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2006 Posts: 4,786
      Only 7% of you voted for it so far, but I think a $4 bet is correct here.

      The situation is close. But two factors favor a bet here: The board is very scary with one overcard and two low cards and we are in position. In addition it could be possible to get a freecard on the turn if we bet the flop. If we reduce the number of opponents we might be able to win the pot against one opponent with a second barrel on the turn. We bet potsize to have more fold equity. By betting so much we can represent the ace.
    • Qastorimon
      Qastorimon
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.07.2007 Posts: 412
      Originally posted by Puschkin81
      Only 7% of you voted for it so far, but I think a $4 bet is correct here.

      The situation is close. But two factors favor a bet here: The board is very scary with one overcard and two low cards and we are in position. In addition it could be possible to get a freecard on the turn if we bet the flop. If we reduce the number of opponents we might be able to win the pot against one opponent with a second barrel on the turn. We bet potsize to have more fold equity. By betting so much we can represent the ace.
      I think you're right. Maybe it's because most voters play at lower stakes. 4$ seems a substantial bet for me at least, but we're still just talking about a 4bb bet into an unraised pot. A lot of people even voted for a minbet of $2. The outcome of this poll would be quite different I think, if we translated it into a question about 10NL or 25 NL :)
    • erob60
      erob60
      Gold
      Joined: 08.03.2007 Posts: 165
      So what's the reasoning behind choosing the $4 bet instead of $3?
    • Puschkin81
      Puschkin81
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2006 Posts: 4,786
      Originally posted by Puschkin81
      ....We bet potsize to have more fold equity. By betting so much we can represent the ace.
      That's why we bet $4 and not $3: to maximize fold equity and to represent the ace. A $4 bet looks more like a protection bet of an ace against possible draws than a $3 bet.

      Good luck at the tables!
      Puschkin81