[NL2-NL10] Fr Nl10: Qq

    • cash4mebg
      cash4mebg
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.08.2009 Posts: 613
      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.05/$0.1 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)

      Known players:
      MP2 (Hero):
      $10.58
      MP3:
      $5.45
      CO:
      $3.50
      BU:
      $10.00
      SB:
      $2.71
      BB:
      $3.28
      UTG1:
      $10.95
      UTG2:
      $10.57
      MP1:
      $22.30


      Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q, Q.
      UTG1 folds, UTG2 raises to $0.30, MP1 folds, Hero raises to $1.00, 5 folds, UTG2 raises to $2.50, Hero raises to $10.58, UTG2 calls $8.07.

      Flop: ($21.3) 8, T, 7 (2 players)


      Turn: ($21.3) J (2 players)


      River: ($21.3) 3 (2 players)


      Final Pot: $21.3.
      Was my AI good preflop UTG2 is 23/20, may turn into a TAG, but too small samplesize. His 4-bet looked pretty small to me, I thought he has something weak. I ran some calculation with Equilator, and gave him range of AA,KK,QQ,JJ,AK. I am not sure about AQ and TT, but with first range it is close to a coinflip.
  • 5 replies
    • Mstlc
      Mstlc
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.03.2009 Posts: 4,676
      His 4bet is standard. x2.5 is normal. I do think I'm playing 3bet/fold here thou.

      His UTG range should be extremely strong. People don't normally 4bet JJ there and there's only 1 more combo of QQ in the deck. I'm afraid you'll see AA or KK here most of the time.

      Against a range of QQ+/AK you've got 40% equity and I'm not even sure if he 4bets AK here. Either way shoving this is -EV cause this guy is never bluffing and you need over 45% equity to make your shove +EV with rake and all.
    • Adapter1337
      Adapter1337
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2010 Posts: 734
      I'm not te best player, but i think here is best call to villain reraise.
      You must call 1.5 to win 11.58 (10.58 + 1 what you allready invested).
      It's 13%. Set prop was 12%?? So odds says NO!, but impled odds says YES. Pretty sure here is AA or KK and pretty sure he/she will go allinn on flop, when you push. Only how you can beat AA or KK on flop is set. So call is right thing, and when you dont make set then check fold. I never fold on that kind of situation, its easy way to make money when you hit set. Ofcorse i fold when villain make bigger reraise. But when you hit set, there is 85% (my stats) that you get double up (90% goes all in and showdown win is also about 90%), there is all that kind of situations when my raise was reraised and i hit set (sample 300 hands like this).

      Sorry about my english, and when i wrong, then please let me know.
    • Mstlc
      Mstlc
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.03.2009 Posts: 4,676
      Originally posted by Adapter1337
      It's 13%. Set prop was 12%?? So odds says NO!, but impled odds says YES.
      The odds you just gave here ARE implied odds...

      Calling 4bets against a TAG with this hand is bad when you're 100bb deep. You have to call 1.5 to win 11.58. That's 7.72:1 implied odds... that's not enough to set mine here in the first place considering you only flop a set around 8:1 and then you're forgetting about reverse implied odds to:
      * First of all... can you honestly make the laydown with Queens if the flop comes off J or T high or something?
      * And second...you'll valuetown yourself on those occasions where you'll be getting it in on a AQx or KQx board and he'll show you a better set.

      And regardless of all of this... if he's playing Kings he will not be stacking you off when the flop comes AQx most likely. There's a reason why people use call15 or call20 and not call8...
      And even if you get it in with top set against kings or aces there is still a chance you'll be getting outdrawn. After all before the flop any pair has about a 20% chance to make a set by the time the river hits.

      Bottom line: If you flat here you are playing your Queens for set value... against the odds. So don't flat >.>
    • Adapter1337
      Adapter1337
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2010 Posts: 734
      Originally posted by Mstlc
      Originally posted by Adapter1337
      It's 13%. Set prop was 12%?? So odds says NO!, but impled odds says YES.
      The odds you just gave here ARE implied odds...

      Calling 4bets against a TAG with this hand is bad when you're 100bb deep. You have to call 1.5 to win 11.58. That's 7.72:1 implied odds... that's not enough to set mine here in the first place considering you only flop a set around 8:1 and then you're forgetting about reverse implied odds to:
      * First of all... can you honestly make the laydown with Queens if the flop comes off J or T high or something?
      * And second...you'll valuetown yourself on those occasions where you'll be getting it in on a AQx or KQx board and he'll show you a better set.

      And regardless of all of this... if he's playing Kings he will not be stacking you off when the flop comes AQx most likely. There's a reason why people use call15 or call20 and not call8...
      And even if you get it in with top set against kings or aces there is still a chance you'll be getting outdrawn. After all before the flop any pair has about a 20% chance to make a set by the time the river hits.

      Bottom line: If you flat here you are playing your Queens for set value... against the odds. So don't flat >.>
      Sorry for implied odds, just wake up.
      Thanks for reply, now i see this another way little bit, thats why i like this forum.
    • MaestroOfZerg
      MaestroOfZerg
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 5,510
      Hi,


      Like he said ;)