Hand Evaluation Boards & Results

    • awishformore
      awishformore
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.06.2007 Posts: 922
      Hello.

      I personally experience it as very annoying that people just keep posting their results with their hand. Most of the time, all they want to hear is "poor poor guy, you played it right and got so unlucky". Boo-fucking-hoo. The reply is usually absolutely obvious in these hands and the original poster doesn't care at all about improving his game.

      This situation has stopped me from actively using the hand evaluation boards several times in the past and I just wish the moderators would be more strict and consequent when it comes to the rules in place.

      A simple "No results, please." and thread closed would be the right response for normal cases, and in the case of obvious attention-whoring, a temporary ban would be more than appropriate in my eyes.

      I hope this complaint finds some open ears, because it is something that really concerns me.

      Over and out, Max.
  • 20 replies
    • Jackalof
      Jackalof
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.06.2008 Posts: 1,462
      "Dear Internet, I think you're full of spam. I can't stand people typing "lol" "woot" "leet" "hugs not drugs" "buy WoW gold" etc. This made me quit Internet. I hope strict actions will be taken against immature jerks. Regards."

      Sorry, but I don't see how this should affect your hand evaluation usage. Ignore the crybaby idiots, post your hands and get professional feedback. Coaches and judges are the ones to worry about Phil Lolmuths who post their hands for the sake of compassion.

      Pokerstrategy, being an open-minded and liberal organization, will never "temporary ban for attention whoring", I think it would go against the company's spirit. In other words, when Ihufa gets banned - we can talk about other restriction implementation. And I hope this never happens because everyone has the right to remain idiot.

      Jackalof
    • IcMean
      IcMean
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.08.2009 Posts: 2,348
      .
    • awishformore
      awishformore
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.06.2007 Posts: 922
      Sorry, but your comparison is just plain stupid, so I won't even bother dismantling it. Worst analogy ever.

      There is no point reading the hand evaluation boards daily if I have to work through 80% of useless crap every day. If you are OK with it becoming more and more useless for the players who intend to use it seriously, then by all means, keep the pointless spam in place.

      Who are you to talk for PokerStrategy anyway? How come you know the company's spirit so well? I'm fine with you posting your opinion, but you come off like a jerk if you're trying to talk for others (or even the whole community).

      The rules and mods are there for a reason, are they not? Rules should be enforced one way or another, especially in a part of the forum dedicated to education and the poker players' progress. There are other parts of the forum reserved for bad beat whine, nice hand histories and in general all kind of spam.

      I also don't see how this has anything to do with open-minded or liberal. Your point is totally out of touch with what my post is about.
    • awishformore
      awishformore
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.06.2007 Posts: 922
      Originally posted by IcMean
      @OP: attention whore
      If you don't have anything useful or constructive to contribute, GTFO troll, this is not BBV, it's a feedback and suggestion board where everybody is free to voice whatever he likes or dislikes.

      What I want to hear is the reasoning behind not enforcing the rules that are put into place in the hand evaluation boards. As far as I know, they were put in place for a reason - and rightfully so.

      So how am I an attention whore for complaining about an educational tool that is being rendered ineffective and unusable to a large extent due to rules not being followed?
    • IcMean
      IcMean
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.08.2009 Posts: 2,348
      Its already said in the rules that results shouldnt be posted.

      But temporary banning people for that... Are you serious? Why would Pokerstrategy, as a poker school, scare members away from the hand evaluation board?

      Actually the hand evalution tool is not at all being rendered ineffective by this excessive rule breaking :rolleyes: . The hand judges just evaluate the hands, say please dont post results next time and go on to the next hand. And so at the same time they enforce the rules. But banning/not evaluating hands is just totally useless as it discourages players to post hands...

      I actually think people sometimes seriously have doubts about such hands.

      For instance when I get a bad beat I always try to think, did I do something wrong? If I can't figure it out I might post it for evaluation. Its not because its obvious for you, that theyre not allowed to post it. Sometimes people just need that assurance, a good player telling you you played the hand well.

      Also results can be posted with a reason. For example if you have a specific question about the handrange of villain and you want to know if the hand he had belonged to his range, how you could read that, ...
      With my post, all I meant was you draw attention to such a small thing which doenst even matter. If you dont like it, ignore those topics.

      Btw there is a board for downswing reports...
    • EagleStar88
      EagleStar88
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.10.2008 Posts: 7,359
      Ok guys, chill a bit, let's not have this discussion get out of control.

      Thanks for the suggestion Max, I haven't fully digested it in detail yet and must admit that I don't use the hand evaluation area nearly as much as I should do. As such I'm probably not the best person to respond.

      What I can say however without any doubt or hesitation is that PokerStrategy really value all feedback and suggestions from it's members and this will be looked into shortly.

      In terms of moderation of course, as an open forum we try not to close threads unneccessarily, but will act if members are being flamed or in danger of losing financially or personal data wise, e.g. spam/dodgy links etc.

      As such I would ask that all members calm down and avoid further comments that could be construed as flaming or looking to wind up other members. You are welcome to state your opinion without going down the personal insult route. Thank you for your co-operation.

      Once again, thank you Max for your suggestion, I will ensure that someone (more qualified than myself) looks into it and gets back to you shortly. We appreciate you posting.

      Best regards,


      Bart
    • awishformore
      awishformore
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.06.2007 Posts: 922
      Originally posted by IcMean
      ...

      Btw there is a board for downswing reports...
      How is that related? I'm not on a downswing if that's what you meant O_o.

      But look at this example then:

      Originally posted by Duodax
      £0.10/£0.20 No Limit Holdem
      iPoker
      8 Players
      Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

      Stacks:
      UTG Hero (£26.04)
      UTG+1 2Ty3aBKaPMaHe (£20)
      MP1 MrRedizz (£4)
      MP2 OahuMaui (£8)
      CO xxsammi (£16.44)
      BTN WbacchusL (£4)
      SB Nanda2003 (£11.56)
      BB luckyPatience (£26.18)

      Pre-Flop: ([color:#0000cc]£0.30[/color], 8 players) Hero is UTG
      [color:#272BA6]Hero raises to £0.60[/color], 5 folds, [color:#B93238]Nanda2003 calls £0.50[/color], [color:#B93238]luckyPatience calls £0.40[/color]

      Flop: ([color:#0000cc]£1.80[/color], 3 players)
      Nanda2003 checks, [color:#272BA6]luckyPatience bets £1[/color], [color:#272BA6]Hero raises to £2.40[/color], Nanda2003 folds, [color:#272BA6]luckyPatience raises to £4.50[/color], [color:#B93238]Hero calls £2.10[/color]

      Turn: ([color:#0000cc]£10.80[/color], 2 players)
      [color:#272BA6]luckyPatience bets £5.40[/color], [color:#B93238]Hero calls £5.40[/color]

      River: ([color:#0000cc]£21.60[/color], 2 players)
      [color:#272BA6]luckyPatience bets £15.68[/color], [color:#272BA6]Hero goes all-in £15.54[/color]

      Final Pot: [color:#0000cc]£52.82[/color]
      luckyPatience shows

      Hero shows


      Hero wins £50.05 (net +£24.01)

      luckyPatience collects £0.14 (net -£26.24)
      Nanda2003 lost £0.70

      weeee nh::) :) :) :)
      Thread title is Nl20 22 Set Crushed Fish.

      That guy just posted around 15 hands and I stopped looking through them after 3, which all were some set that either was sucked out on or where he won the pot. That's definitely not the purpose of the hand evaluation boards and it is more than a bit distracting.

      The boards aren't there just for the hand evaluators who - of course - should have the time to look at every hand. I don't have the time to waste it on reading 50 hands and have 35 of them being totally useless because the results are included, often (admittedly not always) just to brag/whine.

      The guy I mentioned before deserves a temp ban from the hand evaluation forums in my opinion, because he renders this utility less useful for other players by misusing it (as opposed to using it for the right purpose). That was however just one of my suggestions to counter this phenomenon.

      As you can read in my very first post, the threads could at least be closed/moved/deleted if they don't conform to the rules of the hand evaluation board. The same holds true for hands that haven't been correctly converted, so why shouldn't it be the case if you post results?
    • Gerv
      Gerv
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      As a hand evaluator, I agree partly with awishformore. However I think a cap of 3-5 hands per day is at least a better solution than temporarily banning a poster. Banning is quickly related with punishing whereas capping not.

      Capping in my opinion forces a poster to think about which five of his 10 hands he wants to post. Ofcourse capping has it flaws, I only give a suggestion earlier mentioned among hand evaluators.

      But let us all realize that beginners have no experience in posting and some are doing it without knowing the rules. Compare it with starting out with a sport you saw on TV. Compare it with learning a new language, did you know when to use a certain verb, adjective or past participle?

      Last but not least I think you are really out of line Icmean.
    • IcMean
      IcMean
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.08.2009 Posts: 2,348
      Lol I didnt mean to flame at all.... I better just edit out the first post I guess as nobody understands what I meant with it :rolleyes:
    • IcMean
      IcMean
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.08.2009 Posts: 2,348
      And obv capping has its problems too as there are easily more than 5 hands per session you have doubts about when you play a big volume.

      If some people do it very obviously and on a regular basis you can just warn them not to do it anymore (through PM/email/whatever) and if they keep doing it you can temporarily exclude them from the handjudging forum, though I dont think that should be done too often as PS is a poker school and I dont think it should exclude its members from the educational boards...
    • IcMean
      IcMean
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.08.2009 Posts: 2,348
      Also as for the example hand you posted: yesterday was the first time this guy posted hands for evaluation. Ok he added results in all of them, but he probably didnt even know he shouldnt add them.

      I also think the reaction posted in that topic could scare him away from the hand evaluation board, which is not at all what you want to achieve.

      I understand how annoying this is, but you should give people some credit.
    • elhh82
      elhh82
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.09.2008 Posts: 6,838
      Most people just don't know better or come from other forums where hand posting forums are just meant for brags/bad beats.

      I think a warning for the first offence and a light slap in the wrist with a temp suspension of posting privileges should do enough to ensure the same mistakes doesn't happen again.
    • Timo
      Timo
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.08.2008 Posts: 522
      Hey awishformore,

      first of all, thank you for your feedback. This is a question of balance, that we have to keep. Indeed it would be the best case if everyone who starts posting in the hand evaluation forums reads the guidelines, understands the reason why they are there, and then posts according to them.

      But if yout think a bit about that, it should be quite obvious that this is, unfortunately, not realistic. So what would happen if we start punishing these new users? It would not have a huge positive impact because:

      The next new "What a HAND, i have to show OFF!"-user is just around the corner. And the chance that he reads a posted hand of the "new guy before him", who got told off because of his behaviour, and then thinks "oh, maybe there are some guidelines i should read before posting" is almost non existent.

      What we should do is:

      Tell each user, who makes these mistakes (and most of the time it really is a mistake, because they didn´t mean to do anything wrong) "Please have a look at our guidelines: link. These boards are meant to be used as an education-tool, we would like to ask you to respect it as such."

      If he keeps on posting a lot of these hands after our advice, then we could think of a further reaction. But most of the users will then either see this as the great opportunity to advance their poker that it is, or will just lose interest, because they didn´t seriously want to make progress by using the forums in the first place.

      So this is the balance i meant. Don´t scare the new users, that need a bit of a push, away and don´t let the mindless people take over. And from what i see in our forums, I think our handjudges are doing a great job there.

      Cheers,

      Timo
    • awishformore
      awishformore
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.06.2007 Posts: 922
      Hello.

      I absolutely agree that new users shouldn't be banned, but I still firmly believe that closing any and all threads that don't follow the guidelines, accompanied by a reply such as the one you mentioned, is the way to go. It can't be that rules are just flat ignored, and I haven't seen the mods or the hand evaluators tell the users not to post results in the majority of cases - and even in the few cases where they do, the hand is discussed just as if it had been adequately posted, discouraging users to actually care about the rules.

      So while I agree that there has to be a certain balance, I think you fail in maintaining it at an acceptable level.
    • IcMean
      IcMean
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.08.2009 Posts: 2,348
      It takes just as much time to just evaluate the hand (as in: saying nh) and add that OP should read the guidelines, as it takes to close the topic and possibly discourage people to use the board again.
    • awishformore
      awishformore
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.06.2007 Posts: 922
      Originally posted by IcMean
      It takes just as much time to just evaluate the hand (as in: saying nh) and add that OP should read the guidelines, as it takes to close the topic and possibly discourage people to use the board again.
      Yet in one case the rules are followed and in the other case, the rules are disregarded.
    • KidPokersKid
      KidPokersKid
      Global
      Joined: 27.02.2009 Posts: 653
      I think that something needs to be done because what people dont get is that the hand-judges are taking time out of their day to evaluate hands for other people when they could just as easily be doing something of much greater value ...
    • JustErik
      JustErik
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.12.2009 Posts: 10
      Wouldn't it be an easier and more effective solution to incorporate a hybrid approach to this? If someone posts a hand that does not follow the rules, notify him in your reply (but still offer advice on the hand, if suitable). If next time he/she posts a hand that doesn't follow the rules, notify in stronger terms. Third time, close the thread.

      People should be allowed to make mistakes. We all make them.
    • alejandrosh
      alejandrosh
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.07.2008 Posts: 4,346
      I don't think there's too much to do about it besides remembering everytime to hide results.
      I remember when I started using this forum I made a hand evaluation thread for every suckout or everytime I had quads .
      posting in the sng forum "omg look I had ATo and I backdoored a straight weeeee".

      I know it's annoying but you can always ignore that user.
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