What about those super turbo heads up SNGs at Fulltilt?

    • suaveplayer
      suaveplayer
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      Joined: 08.08.2009 Posts: 109
      Just saw those crazy 300 hundred bb starting chips at FullTilt. Thats like 10bb.

      Is there anyone doing well at those?

      If you do well at push or fold does it mean you will do well at these?
  • 23 replies
    • fun101rockets
      fun101rockets
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      Joined: 01.06.2008 Posts: 1,162
      i tried them nultitabling up to 9 at once. its just an icm trainer.
    • ChoChikun
      ChoChikun
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      Joined: 15.10.2008 Posts: 291
      There is no ICM in Heads Up.
    • zamoda
      zamoda
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      Joined: 16.03.2009 Posts: 509
      Originally posted by ChoChikun
      There is no ICM in Heads Up.
      why?
    • lennonac
      lennonac
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      Joined: 02.05.2009 Posts: 1,421
      Originally posted by ChoChikun
      There is no ICM in Heads Up.

      eeerrrrrr.....
    • mayoctt
      mayoctt
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      Joined: 08.04.2005 Posts: 70
      You don't have an edge to beat the rake in the long run. And, of course, variance is megahuge there.
    • lennonac
      lennonac
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      Joined: 02.05.2009 Posts: 1,421
      Originally posted by mayoctt
      You don't have an edge to beat the rake in the long run. And, of course, variance is megahuge there.

      eeeerrrrr....
    • mishkagg
      mishkagg
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      Joined: 29.07.2008 Posts: 1,354
      Originally posted by mayoctt
      You don't have an edge to beat the rake in the long run. And, of course, variance is megahuge there.
      What, what, whaaat?!?

      It's just ICM training and ICM in HU doesn't work too well, yes. People are supposed to use SAGE in HU. ICM works best in 3 to 6 people scenarios.
    • lennonac
      lennonac
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      Joined: 02.05.2009 Posts: 1,421
      Originally posted by mishkagg
      Originally posted by mayoctt
      You don't have an edge to beat the rake in the long run. And, of course, variance is megahuge there.
      What, what, whaaat?!?

      It's just ICM training and ICM in HU doesn't work too well, yes. People are supposed to use SAGE in HU. ICM works best in 3 to 6 people scenarios.

      eeeerrrr.....

      Have all you people been smoking crack?
    • GunFlavoured
      GunFlavoured
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      Joined: 19.10.2008 Posts: 626
      Lol they are great... They rarely get past the first blind level. You just need to know the Nash ranges and adjust slightly to each opponent depending on the stats available. I imagine the varience would suck but you should have a decent edge on low limits.
    • ChoChikun
      ChoChikun
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      Joined: 15.10.2008 Posts: 291
      Originally posted by zamoda
      Originally posted by ChoChikun
      There is no ICM in Heads Up.
      why?
      Because we play for only one money place. There is no change in chip value. On first hand we have 1 chip stack for 1 Buy In. If we win we have 2 chip stacks and prize is 2xBuy In. There is no change in chip value - no ICM.
    • ChoChikun
      ChoChikun
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      Joined: 15.10.2008 Posts: 291
      Originally posted by lennonac
      Originally posted by ChoChikun
      There is no ICM in Heads Up.

      eeerrrrrr.....
      I have problems with understanding your explanation, but maybe it is because I smoke crack.. :P
    • ChoChikun
      ChoChikun
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      Joined: 15.10.2008 Posts: 291
      Originally posted by GunFlavoured
      Lol they are great... They rarely get past the first blind level. You just need to know the Nash ranges and adjust slightly to each opponent depending on the stats available. I imagine the varience would suck but you should have a decent edge on low limits.
      How big ROI you have with this Nash strategy?
    • outspan
      outspan
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      Joined: 07.02.2010 Posts: 1,196
      I don't play many HU but the super turbo 1-table sng are one of my absolute favorites... great way for me to build a bankroll and complete the $100 bonus :)
    • ihufa
      ihufa
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      Joined: 18.03.2008 Posts: 3,323
      fact that people think they're good for ICM practice makes me think they're pretty profitable
    • amplifyd
      amplifyd
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      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 1,769
      Originally posted by ChoChikun
      Originally posted by zamoda
      Originally posted by ChoChikun
      There is no ICM in Heads Up.
      why?
      Because we play for only one money place. There is no change in chip value. On first hand we have 1 chip stack for 1 Buy In. If we win we have 2 chip stacks and prize is 2xBuy In. There is no change in chip value - no ICM.
      Uhm I'm pretty sure this doesn't mean that ICM can't be applied. It just means that ok Chip EV=$EV but still this is just a special case within the ICM.
    • ChoChikun
      ChoChikun
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      Joined: 15.10.2008 Posts: 291
      Originally posted by amplifyd
      Uhm I'm pretty sure this doesn't mean that ICM can't be applied. It just means that ok Chip EV=$EV but still this is just a special case within the ICM.
      I am pretty sure that you don't know what is ICM. What you think that ICM is?
    • ChoChikun
      ChoChikun
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      Joined: 15.10.2008 Posts: 291
      Originally posted by mishkagg
      It's just ICM training and ICM in HU doesn't work too well, yes. People are supposed to use SAGE in HU. ICM works best in 3 to 6 people scenarios.
      Do you know what is ICM?
    • mishkagg
      mishkagg
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      Joined: 29.07.2008 Posts: 1,354
      Originally posted by ChoChikun
      Originally posted by mishkagg
      It's just ICM training and ICM in HU doesn't work too well, yes. People are supposed to use SAGE in HU. ICM works best in 3 to 6 people scenarios.
      Do you know what is ICM?
      In its simplest form the Independant Chip Model (ICM) in Poker is a way of representing your current equity in a tournament prize pool based on the stack sizes of the remaining players and the payout structure. That is to say, given your chip stack and the payouts - then running the tournament 100's of times (so that chance factors even out), how much would you win on average?

      Once you know how much equity you have in a SNG prize pool you can compare the amount risked by making a play to the potential gain. This gives a whole new perspective on your decisions - and invariably makes them more profitable in the SNG bubble situation. Even if you choose not to use this model yourself it is important that you understand it, since you will then know what is driving the decisions of many of your opponents at the bubble, and can adjust accordingly.
    • mishkagg
      mishkagg
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      Joined: 29.07.2008 Posts: 1,354
      More on the matter:
      A situation in which the ICM tends to fail is when the blinds are large in relation to at least one stack on the table. Some people consider a stack of 1-2 big blinds to be where ICM begins to fail because of large blinds. Personally, I feel it's closer to 3 big blinds, and most people feel that “large” is closer to my estimate than 1-2 big blinds. In any situation, this can cause problems with the ICM, especially in bubble situations. In these types of situations, where a folding war defense may be more useful, ICM can be less accurate, although it will often give the correct answer.

      Accuracy also comes into play with the number of players remaining in the tournament. ICM is most accurate when you're looking at a range of 3 to 5 players.

      And:

      When there are two players, ICM and actual tournament chips correlate perfectly, so while ICM works just fine with two players, it's quite pointless to calculate, as calculating with chips works just as well in that situation.

      As the number of players increases, it becomes more difficult to predict the actual outcome, because of the number of variables that come into play in tournaments that ICM doesn't capture, and are very difficult to model in general. While it still works well ten-handed, it works best near the bubble and after the bubble has ended.
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