[NL2-NL10] KK - MP1 - 3 players called the pre-flop raise

    • czzoltan
      Joined: 17.02.2010 Posts: 12
      Known players:

      0.01/0.02 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Elephant 0.69 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K:heart: , K:club:
      UTG1 calls $0.02, UTG2 folds, Hero raises to $0.10, MP2 calls $0.10, MP3 folds, CO calls $0.10, 3 folds, UTG1 calls $0.08.

      Flop: ($0.43) J:club: , 7:heart: , T:club: (4 players)
      UTG1 bets $0.02, Hero raises to $2.17 (All-In), MP2 folds, CO calls $1.96 (All-In), UTG1 folds, Hero gets uncalled bet back.

      Turn: ($4.37) 7:club:
      River: ($4.37) 5:club: (1 players)

      Final Pot: $4.37

      I'm not quite sure that I played this hand as I was supposed to. I would like some advice on how to play these kind of hands when more players call the pre-flop raise and we get to see the flop.
  • 3 replies
    • BattleHunter
      Joined: 12.11.2009 Posts: 870
      I'm pretty sure that unless you have a serious read about some people in the pot, your main goal would be to get the money it.

      Since you can pretty much expect to have the best hand here most of the times (many times they will show up wot drawing hands like 2 clubs, or some strange gutshots// OESDs, but you have blockers for the upper straight draws), so you pretty much want to protect it. When I find myself in such a spot I usually just make my raises bigger. Remember, our main goal is to get the money in and usually just going broke out of nowhere for a full 100bb in 21bb pot is not the way to do it.

      Next time you find yourself in such a spot just make a decent sized bet, probably around the pot. We want to show them that we're not giving away free cards, but if they come anyway, we're more than happy.

      Now on the turn, there comes a club, completing all flush drows and the bottom 98 straight. That's not that cool, but keep in mind that you're holding the 2nd nut flush re-draw. Let's pretend you made a bet of 20bb and CO just called you. Everyone else folds and we go heads-up to the turn. Our pot is something like 61bb, and we cover our villain who has 78bb left.

      At that point you could consider 2 options:
      1) you check, getting "scared" all of a sudden and call his bet if he makes one
      2) you bet your standard amount (something between 38 and 48bb) and hope to only get called again, or to just generate fold equity - nothing wrong to do it like that either.

      Things might get ugly if he raises a bet of yours on the turn, because he would do that if he completed his flush // 98 straight, and if he really does raise you villains often have it. Ofc it will be very hard to get off the pot at that point, as it is bigger than 100bb and we have great odds, considering that at that point we're still ahead of some hands (not many, but I'm pretty sure the standard villain would keep playing JQ, JK and JA the same way, he will play two pairs and sets too ofc) just with our overpair, but we have the 2nd nut flush re-draw.
      Sometimes he could show up with AcXc on the turn already, or with AcJ, meaning our draw is no good, but more often I expect a lower flush, straight, TPGK and two pair/set kind of hands at such a play (at least in my metagame villains often tend to "protect" their hands when the board is already too scary so coming with a raise from the lated kind of hands here would not surprise me), and you are in decent shape against most of those hands (the range I'm putting villain on gives me close to 50% equity, improving on the turn to 54% and with all the dead money in the pot...).

      I already made a long-ish post and it might not even be correct, but I hope my way of thinking was of some help to you.
      Of course keep in mind that if you have a read that someone would pay off with weaker QQ, 99, TPTK type of hand on the flop, when you go broke on the flop, then obviously it's a +EV move and you should do it by all means. But at least for me, getting such a read is rather hard and I would try to slowly climb myself towards going broke on the river :P
    • czzoltan
      Joined: 17.02.2010 Posts: 12
      Yes, I probably didn't raise enough before the flop from that spot, and that is why 3 opponents called me (I think they had pretty marginal hands).

      I went all-in on the flop because it was draw-heavy and when 3 players are in you can expect that at least one of them is waiting for his flush to complete and I wanted to make the upcoming cards as expensive as possible. Only one player called with 8:club: 9:club: and he made his straight flush on the river, so even if I bet a smaller amount on the flop, I think there is no one who wouldn't call with an open-end straight flush draw. :s_biggrin:

      A smaller bet also might have been called by more opponents, but maybe I still could have saved some money :f_biggrin: .

      Thanks for the advice. :)
    • Kaitz20
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      if players are passive then raise to 0,4$ and then fold to shove or re-raise
      if players are aggressive then raise 0,4$ and shove over raise
      Don´t like overshove, since it allows them to call with better hands and fold worse ones