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BSS starting hands small pairs?

    • Escobario
      Joined: 17.01.2009 Posts: 183
      so how come small pairs are playable from middle position but not UTG? if ur just limping and calling a raise, why does it matter if ur early or middle position when u likely wont have good position after the flop anyway

      confuses me, wouldnt it be more logical to just limp/call from early position with these hands too in hopes of flopping a set? or is there some reason iv overlooked
  • 6 replies
    • tokyoaces
      Joined: 01.04.2009 Posts: 1,883
      You are severely underestimating the fact that 7-8 people behind you can raise. When they raise they are going to have a lot of equity against assuming they don't already have you beat with a better pair.
    • thazar
      Joined: 14.09.2009 Posts: 6,561
      If you only limp/call your small pairs from early position an attentive opponent will spot it and raise you every time forcing you to fold or to call without the right odds. you need to balance your game. Also you are not in position so be carefull. If you play small pocket pair from utg I would play them like a strong hand (raise) but fold to reraise. If you are called be carefull when you c bet because if you are called a second time it is likely to be a very strong hand. however if someone call you it is likely they will go a long way so you get good implied odds as well.
    • benguela
      Joined: 25.06.2009 Posts: 22
      But what if the table has mostly big stacks so those raising behind me would have stacks which would fall into the 20 times original raise category, then surely limping small pairs early position is valid?

      Also if ther table is passive and you often get to the flop with lots of limpers then limping small pairs early position is another valid strategy?
    • Lim00n
      Joined: 13.10.2009 Posts: 73
      In my experience limp/calling small pocket pairs in earlier positions is not usually profitable, since:
      1.) Getting money out of opponents OOP is harder than in position, and against semi capable opponents limp/call, donk flop is going to look exactly like what your hand is - a set .
      2.) Getting money out of a limped pot (lets say noone raises) is allso harder and the money that you do win will usually not be the amount you needed for your set call.
      3.) It's hard to know where you stand when you don't hit, i mean your pair of sixes could still be good on a 2 4 T board but will you bet it OOP against 3 opponents waiting to act behind you? When you check and someone bets his pair of tens or fours will you call again OOP not knowing if you're far behind or if he's just trying to pick up the pot?

      Ideally you'd want to have position on the PF raiser exactly for the reason that you can extract more money from him (especially an EP raiser whose is supposedly very strong) - at least he's usually going to CBet the flop if you're heads up.

      Hope my post made any sense at all :)
    • strosdegoz
      Joined: 24.11.2007 Posts: 184
      If thats the case, I guess you are right but otherwise its just as everyone posted above, you should avoid calling because you are going to be raised for sure by one of the later opponents on the table.
    • supeyrio
      Joined: 11.11.2009 Posts: 3,106
      there is no hard and fast rule