Kings all in preflop, really?

    • michaelqian
      michaelqian
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.05.2009 Posts: 512
      Sign... I always hear that it is the right thing to do, personally I can almost never fold kings preflop.

      Played almost 10k hands of rush poker, but every time I've gone all in preflop with KK with a full stack, I've ran into aces. I didn't manage to suck out on any of them. At least 5 times now.

      What are you thoughts on this? I'm conflicted because I can never bring myself to fold, yet when I call their all in, I'm almost guaranteed to see aces.

      Thanks
  • 25 replies
    • ihufa
      ihufa
      Gold
      Joined: 18.03.2008 Posts: 3,323
      try flatcalling
    • michaelqian
      michaelqian
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.05.2009 Posts: 512
      Well, let's say I'm in position.

      Person in front of me raises, no way I can just flat call and let get lucky with his Ax hands.

      If I'm out of position, I raise, get re-raised, I re-raise again and he goes all in. This is typically where I ran into aces.

      If I flat call his reraise, I'm underplaying my hand, he could have AK or QQ, or even JJ or TT if he's loose enough.

      But if I re-raise him again, he will likely just call with TT, JJ, QQ or AK, or even fold, but will only shove all in with AA, at which point I find it almost impossible to fold.

      Therefore it seems like it doesn't work too well either way!!

      Not just rush poker, also in normal poker, at least 70% of the time I lost a stack with KK, it was because of AA.
    • ihufa
      ihufa
      Gold
      Joined: 18.03.2008 Posts: 3,323
      try folding
    • PocketAcesJohn
      PocketAcesJohn
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.06.2008 Posts: 1,116
      You should 4-bet shove. After you re-raise and then he does you just shove, you shouldnt leave chips behind. Its just a cooler if they have AA. There is no avoiding it.

      So action: He bet, you raise, he re-raise, you shove...
    • excelgeo
      excelgeo
      Silver
      Joined: 17.10.2008 Posts: 1,107
      Originally posted by ihufa
      try folding
      you are a terrible person.

      how was the live event? managed to not get shot?
    • michaelqian
      michaelqian
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.05.2009 Posts: 512
      try folding


      How about you try folding after you put 80bb into the pot against me?
    • supeyrio
      supeyrio
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.11.2009 Posts: 3,106
      Originally posted by michaelqian
      try folding


      How about you try folding after you put 80bb into the pot against me?
      just keep playing... do you have Holdem manager or similar software? review your KK holdings, i do not think you are netting losses in the long, just that you remember the coolers more.. cheers
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      reraise for info and fold if they 4bet
    • p0kerQT
      p0kerQT
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.03.2008 Posts: 1,300
      Hi michaelqian,

      Personally (as an SnG player) I would never fold KK preflop, unless like the whole table is all in or somethin silly like that (n even then I would have trouble folding.)

      N I don't think I could fold at a cash game either, there's too many hands I beat, n I'm behind to AA only!

      Unless they were a super nit that I had like 1k hand stats for, n they had never 4bet anything less than AA, then I'd consider a fold.

      ?(

      Regards,
      Sarah
    • RahXephon1
      RahXephon1
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2009 Posts: 972
      I think you can safely fold them when playing against some NL25 NL50 nits with less then 1%3bet stat. Other than that you really can't do it. Good players will always have some other hands in their showing ranges also bluffs semibluffs.
    • ihufa
      ihufa
      Gold
      Joined: 18.03.2008 Posts: 3,323
      Originally posted by excelgeo
      Originally posted by ihufa
      try folding
      you are a terrible person.

      how was the live event? managed to not get shot?
      Im just trying to help here, obviously shoving and calling are both losing plays :f_biggrin:
    • MaliSunSeT
      MaliSunSeT
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.06.2009 Posts: 281
      Originally posted by excelgeo
      Originally posted by ihufa
      try folding
      you are a terrible person.

      how was the live event? managed to not get shot?
      He won 800K$ with a knife !
    • w34z3l
      w34z3l
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 13,295
      Personally I only fold KK preflop with a STRONG read against a tight opponent. In rush poker I'd be shipping in 100% of time preflop with KK if required.

      Folding to 4bet could be an option if you were convinced they'd only do it with aces, but with no reads you wouldn't ever know this.

      I think I more agree with pocketacesjohn on this, so long as people at the tables continue to shove a wider range than just AA, stacking off is profitable and the times you run into AA with your Kings can be considered a type of cooler. EDIT: (Important to be aware of stacksizes though, calling off 3 stacks with KK preflop may not be a good decision.)

      w34z3l
    • Alverine
      Alverine
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.01.2009 Posts: 1,938
      Sometimes I face similar situations. But at the moment you 3bet you beat his range and you reraise and he folds theres a good pot to collect. Therefore you cannot let go. When you 4bet and he 5bet even though you are for sure hes holding AA you need to call because of the odds you get. And of course theres the chance of KK and a probability of QQ or WORSE.


      In other words: snap shove.
    • wasy8
      wasy8
      Black
      Joined: 29.01.2009 Posts: 1,507
      variance sucks. keep getting your kings in preflop and profit in the long run.

      its really that simple.
    • BoyRobot777
      BoyRobot777
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.01.2009 Posts: 327
      alright, thats my last kings, and what happens:


      Known players:
      Position:
      Stack
      MP2:
      $14.46
      MP3:
      $20.84
      Hero:
      $32.37

      0.1/0.25 No-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Elephant 0.69 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is BU with K:spade: , K:club:
      MP2 calls $0.25, MP3 raises to $1.00, CO folds, Hero raises to $3.00, 3 folds, MP3 raises to $7.00, Hero raises to $32.37 (All-In), MP3 calls $13.84 (All-In).

      Flop: ($53.81) 8:spade: , Q:club: , 8:diamond:
      Turn: ($53.81) 3:spade:
      River: ($53.81) 6:club: (2 players)


      Final Pot: $53.81

      Results follow (highlight to see):
      Hero shows two pairs, kings and eights (Ks Kc)
      MP3 shows two pairs, aces and eights (Ah Ac)

      MP3 wins with two pairs, aces and eights (Ah Ac)


      ------------------


      Known players:
      Position:
      Stack
      Hero:
      $52.85
      CO:
      $20.85

      0.25/0.5 No-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Elephant 0.69 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is BB with K:spade: , K:club:
      2 folds, CO raises to $2.50, 2 folds, Hero calls $2.00.

      Flop: ($5.25) 2:diamond: , 3:heart: , 2:club: (2 players)
      Hero checks, CO bets $4.00, Hero calls $4.00.

      Turn: ($13.25) 5:heart: (2 players)
      Hero checks, CO raises $14.35 (All-In), Hero calls $14.35.

      River: ($41.95) J:spade: (2 players)


      Final Pot: $41.95

      Results follow (highlight to see):
      Hero shows two pairs, kings and deuces (Ks Kc)
      CO shows two pairs, aces and deuces (Ad As)

      CO wins with two pairs, aces and deuces (Ad As)

      ---


      Known players:
      Position:
      Stack
      Hero:
      $29.73
      BB:
      $46.55

      0.1/0.25 No-Limit Hold'em (4 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Elephant 0.69 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is SB with K:heart: , K:spade:
      2 folds, Hero raises to $1.00, BB raises to $3.50, Hero raises to $9.50, BB raises to $46.55 (All-In), Hero calls $20.23 (All-In).

      Flop: ($76.28) 6:spade: , 9:club: , 8:diamond:
      Turn: ($76.28) 8:spade:
      River: ($76.28) T:club: (2 players)


      Final Pot: $76.28

      Results follow (highlight to see):
      Hero shows two pairs, kings and eights (Kh Ks)
      BB shows a straight, ten high (7d 7c)

      BB wins with a straight, ten high (7d 7c)

      --
      thats just few of many... so, the question would be: WTFFFFF?!!!
    • BoyRobot777
      BoyRobot777
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.01.2009 Posts: 327
      i mean, i havent won like last 10 of them -_-;;; so i guess lets all be fuckin nits and push aa
    • supeyrio
      supeyrio
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.11.2009 Posts: 3,106
      print a screen shot of your Holdem manager report on KK.
    • Asaf92
      Asaf92
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.11.2009 Posts: 104
      The first time i heard about rush poker, the first thing that came thru my mind was:
      "Yeah, but these tables will be as tight as a baby turtle's anus"
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