ICM situation i don't understand

    • farbwenz
      farbwenz
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.01.2010 Posts: 359
      Hi,
      I didn't find any other place to post this, so I'll just try it here:-)

      I have a situation in the ICM trainer I don't quite understand:

      3 Players,
      BU: 6900
      HERO(SB) 1175
      BB 6700
      Blind size 150

      My cards are TT so I fold, which is correct. But in the push-range it says 0%, so I would even fold, if i had AA? Or am I mistaken there? i mean, don't get me wrong, i'm not talking about the TT but about a similar situation with AA in my hand...
      I don't quite see the sense of it, with 7 big blinds left , shouldnt i take the oppurtunity and go all-in too?
  • 4 replies
    • Meiffert
      Meiffert
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.10.2008 Posts: 151
      Hi, farbwenz,
      Originally posted by farbwenz
      I have a situation in the ICM trainer I don't quite understand:

      3 Players,
      BU: 6900
      HERO(SB) 1175
      BB 6700
      Blind size 150
      Are you sure, that you described the situation correctly?
      I'm pretty sure that if we are talking about standard 50/30/20 prize structure SNG (like 9man SNGs at Pokerstars, Full Tilt or 10man SNGs at OnGame, iPoker or PartyPoker) then you should go all-in with TT (and with AA, too, of course) no matter what BU does.

      A different situation is when you are in the big blind and both players before you are already all-in. In that case you should fold TT and your calling range should be only 0,5 % (AA only).
      The reason is that if you go all-in here, you have to win the hand to get to HU, where you still only have about 25 % of the chips. If any of the other 2 players win the hand, you end up 3rd and even with KK, there is a decent chance that you will loose against 2 opponents (if one of them has AQ and the other 88 or T9s for example, you only win about 50-55 % of the time).
      On the other hand if you fold here, you are pretty much guaranteed the 2nd place even though you will be really shortstack in HU.

      If this scenario isn't the one you faced in ICM trainer, try to describe it more precisely or maybe post a screenshot.
    • farbwenz
      farbwenz
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.01.2010 Posts: 359
      if both went all-in i would understand(learnt it the painful way:D ) , but they did not.
      I made 2 screenshots, but i don't know how to upload them...I don't see how to attach files, and I wouldn't know where to upload^^
      Anyway, the ICM Trainer is set to default settings: Titan Poker 10-handed, 2-6 players, hand range 1-100, training mode and position random.
      BU's range is 0,5 % (AA), BB 20,2%.
      I think I get it now: If BU is playing perfectly, he will only go all-in with AA,giving me no chance to gain money, but BB will still call in 20%, which equals 2nd place for me no matter who wins. right?^^

      or...It is because I put my edge to -50% instead of 0%. my fault...^^
    • Meiffert
      Meiffert
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.10.2008 Posts: 151
      Yeah, thanks for the additional info, I had some sleep and now I can see the problem. :)
      The BU has 46 big blinds, therefore he is in no way in push/fold mode and he won't be pushing. If he had to play push/fold, he would only get all-in with AA (at least ICM trainer gives him this range) since he is simply too deep to openpush anything else.
      Now it's obvious that you don't go all-in when you "know" he has Aces.

      In real game he would only raise here, maybe to 400 chips (and not with AA only, but with a wide range) and you can easily push over it with TT.

      This hand is simply unrealistic because of this and you should maybe set a higher blind level so that all players have less than 15 big blinds.


      Some misc info: I heard (from SNG coach Unam) that the edge in ICM Trainer is bugged and you should set it to 0, otherwise the results might not be correct.
      Screenshots can be uploaded for example on imageshack, you simply use browse and find the screenshot in your computer, then you click on upload and you will get a link to your image.
    • farbwenz
      farbwenz
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.01.2010 Posts: 359
      well...i was close:D
      anyway, thanks for all the information:-)
      this was a mean one, I wouldn't think of such a situation in an ICM trainer...