[NL20-NL50] NL25 - KQo - TPGK 3bet pot

    • falcone1983
      falcone1983
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.05.2009 Posts: 5,420
      Hi guys, I don't normally post here (I do at the Dutch subforum), but I played this hand yesterday that I thought was completely standard at the time, but the other players at the table were all "WTF?" and in my blog there's also a discussion going on about it.

      For some reason this puts me on lifetilt, so I'm getting a second opinion here.

      Thanks in advance for your advice.



      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.25(BB) Replayer
      Hero ($25.10)
      BB ($28.22)
      CO ($25)
      BTN ($38.21)

      Dealt to Hero Q:diamond: K:club:

      CO raises to $0.75, fold, Hero raises to $2.75, fold, CO calls $2

      FLOP ($5.75) 7:spade: Q:spade: 4:club:

      Hero bets $3.50, CO raises to $8, Hero raises to $22.35 (AI)



      Villain is a LAG'y player (with some fishy tendencies). Stats (approximatively b/c I'm not on my playing computer ATM): 30/22, 2/4 fold to 3bet over about 150 hands. He opened quite a lot UTG (which is CO here, b/c we were 4handed for a moment, but he sat "across the table from me").

      As for my own image, I try to play strong aggressive value poker (don't we all :rolleyes: ), but this session for some reason I played quite spewy. Don't remember if anything particularly notable happened on this table tough. My stats are 21/18 w/ 8-9% 3bet. No idea if my opponent is paying attention to my image.



      Anyway, 3bet pre seems standard against this particular player (at least from a game theory perspective, I need quite a lot of value hands to play back at his aggression/looseness, and KQo seems as good as any).

      As played I thought the flop was ultrastandard. I thought for about one second: "Can he have draws in his range? --> Yes --> Stack off".



      Cbet/folding the flop is not an option IMO (is it?).

      Does anyone see any merit in bet/calling the flop? If so, why, and what's your plan for turn & river?

      Any proponents for an exotic line (c/c flop, donk turn? c/r flop AI? something even more fancy?)?



      FWIW, I think his range for C/R'ing the flop is about AQ/KQ/QJs, almost any A:sX, some other FD's, 77/44 (slightly discounted b/c no set odds pre), AA/KK/QQ (heavily discounted b/c blockers + no 4bet pre), and a very small amount of air (like 3% maybe).

      I also think that I have (except against air obv), almost no FE on my shove. He never folds draws or QJs here (if he has them in his range that is).

      Also FWIW, I have never in my entire poker playing life (>50k hands on this limit) seen any NL25 SH player take a c/r flop, shove turn line with air in a 3bet pot 100BB deep (FD's don't count as air obv).



      Sorry for the wall of text :f_eek: .
  • 2 replies
    • Gerv
      Gerv
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      If he is laggy postflop, I also like min3bet Flop to give him the LAST/Final bet for ''feq'' which he doesn't have but he doesn't know it.
      I dislike cBet/call in terms of letting him get it in with worse (=Bluffs)

      Standard play is idd bet/raise Flop and has the highest EV, the pot is substantial big enough that TPTK is pretty good. Actually that's what you actually get most of the time with KQo: getting Toppair so cBet/fold is out of question

      - Gerv
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      easy bet/shove against laggy player
      He would sometimes bluff there, sometimes raise with draws and weaker hands, like QJ for value
      No way you can fold your hand or take any other line tha'n getting all the money in on the flop.