Only move when have 13 blinds or under is to push? All others are losing moves?

  • 6 replies
    • hepcat
      hepcat
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.03.2008 Posts: 5,361
      It's because you create most fold equity in that way and you will also be bound to the pot with a smaler raise. I'm sure someone else can give a better answer but all in all thats the reason.
    • Janusrichmond
      Janusrichmond
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.07.2009 Posts: 2,432
      Im also thinking about this time to time. Sometimes I got a read that someone folds alot to smaller raises aswell, then I prefer raising smaller and more often to take home cheap blinds. when I raise like 3 BB with my 13 BB stack, Im not really potcomited, or am I?
    • IIJonasII
      IIJonasII
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.11.2009 Posts: 126
      You have 13bb in CO.
      Bet 3 BB, Buton push 13 BB, SB fold 0,5 BB, BB fold 1 BB, ante 1 BB (or not)-pot 3+13+0,5+1+1=18.5 you need to call 10 = almost 2 to 1 if you raise with reasonable hand you potcomited.
    • noclaninator
      noclaninator
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.12.2008 Posts: 312
      you have 3bb in the small blind and it is folded to you with A2o in a MTT with antes. The correct play is to limp and shove any flop. If you shove preflop he has to call any 2 and you create no fold equity.

      If he shoves preflop, you call: result is the same as if you had shoved yourself; the money is all in and there is no fold equity.

      If he checks, you are first to act on the flop and you have a potsize bet left which is enough to make him fold if he has missed, thus denying him two free cards.

      I know this play is correct, I don't know how many other plays are though. If you try to raise smaller when you are in any other position, the big blind always has the stop n go play to use on you where he just calls your raise and shoves any flop.

      One more that I just thought of: say you have 11bb in a SNG and you are dealt AK under the gun with 4 people left. The big blind has 5bb left. You can min raise here because denying odds to the big blind is meaningless when he has such a small stack that he will call a lot anyways; but if something crazy happens like you raise, 2 people reraise all in in front of you, you give yourself the option to fold here.

      The one thing to be careful of is you should almost never be playing raise/fold with this stack size. Even a min raise puts 20% of your stack in and folding 20% of your stack is not advised. The shove is usually recommended because its never a bad play and its simpler to execute
    • pat3392
      pat3392
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.01.2010 Posts: 13
      @IIJonasII
      I'm not good at ratios, 1.85:1 I think means you have to win about 65%(how do I work this out anyway?), which means you are not pot committed; I do like your reasoning, but 13 blinds seem a little too high for that formula(push fold at 13BB), unless of course I am completely wrong with converting the ratio to a percentage =/

      What about calling a hand? Why cannot I not to do that? Math please, if you can

      What if the players are going to call an all-in push about the same as a 2.5 blind raise, and you're at 10-13 blinds.

      What if you know that a player will either fold to your 2.5 blind raise, or push if he has a decent hand, as in you have this read on him? The other night I realised this player was pushing good hands in this situation, and folded most other times. Saved me from busting when he pushed me all in with his AQ, the only time he did push after about 6 steals. He called once, but an all in continuation bet scared him off; this continuation bet would work approximately 2/3s of the time, since they only hit that often on the flop, with exceptions to pockets or particuarly high cards/draws. So, if they did call I would still steal most of the time, with more in the pot.

      Unless you can prove otherwise, it seems that push-fold mode is more for when up against players who actually know what they are doing....
    • Pincell
      Pincell
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.02.2008 Posts: 280
      Originally posted by pat3392
      @IIJonasII
      I'm not good at ratios, 1.85:1 I think means you have to win about 65%(how do I work this out anyway?), which means you are not pot committed; I do like your reasoning, but 13 blinds seem a little too high for that formula(push fold at 13BB), unless of course I am completely wrong with converting the ratio to a percentage =/

      What about calling a hand? Why cannot I not to do that? Math please, if you can

      What if the players are going to call an all-in push about the same as a 2.5 blind raise, and you're at 10-13 blinds.

      What if you know that a player will either fold to your 2.5 blind raise, or push if he has a decent hand, as in you have this read on him? The other night I realised this player was pushing good hands in this situation, and folded most other times. Saved me from busting when he pushed me all in with his AQ, the only time he did push after about 6 steals. He called once, but an all in continuation bet scared him off; this continuation bet would work approximately 2/3s of the time, since they only hit that often on the flop, with exceptions to pockets or particuarly high cards/draws. So, if they did call I would still steal most of the time, with more in the pot.

      Unless you can prove otherwise, it seems that push-fold mode is more for when up against players who actually know what they are doing....
      The "1" is always on left side so it actually is 1:1.85.
      If I am right then you can count percentage like this:

      A:B
      x = A/A+B * 100 (%)

      This means that if you are offered 1:1.85 you have to have at least 35% equity to make call. Which you have when you open reasonable hand. That means that when you open you are going broke in that case. With push your fold equity is higher and that's why push>>raise/call.