[NL20-NL50] Nl50SH QQ on bad flop

    • Firehoper
      Firehoper
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.04.2008 Posts: 102
      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.50(BB) Replayer
      SB ($26.76)
      BB ($50)
      UTG ($88.33)
      Hero ($58.77)
      CO ($58.77)
      BTN ($9.04)

      Dealt to Hero Q:spade: Q:club:

      UTG raises to $2, Hero raises to $6, fold, fold, fold, fold, UTG calls $4

      FLOP ($12.75) T:diamond: 9:club: 5:club:

      UTG checks, Hero bets $9.50, UTG raises to $23, Hero calls $13.50

      TURN ($58.75) T:diamond: 9:club: 5:club: 7:diamond:

      UTG bets $59.33 (AI), Hero calls $29.77 (AI)

      RIVER ($118) T:diamond: 9:club: 5:club: 7:diamond: A:spade:

      Stats: 21/16/1.8, 8.8 3bet.

      Should have folded somewhere, but where?
  • 6 replies
    • BoyRobot777
      BoyRobot777
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      Joined: 26.01.2009 Posts: 327
      he could have played it the same way maybe with JJ or 88... i guess its a cooler...
    • Firehoper
      Firehoper
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      Joined: 15.04.2008 Posts: 102
      I removed the results, sorry for the inconvenience.

      I still think I had to fold, if not on the flop then on the turn, but maybe I'm wrong. Thanks for a reply. :)
    • awishformore
      awishformore
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      Joined: 16.06.2007 Posts: 922
      I would jam it on the flop.
    • Tampaloeres81
      Tampaloeres81
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      Joined: 08.03.2009 Posts: 1,416
      Originally posted by awishformore
      I would jam it on the flop.
      +1
    • Anger86
      Anger86
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      Joined: 17.08.2008 Posts: 511
      We have 3 options on the Flop after betting:

      1) Call - it is very dangerous play on such wet boards. We want to protect our hand, if we decide to play it.

      2) Push AI or Fold - Opponent could play KK+, JJ-TT, A:club: K:club: the same way.
      Against this range we have a good equity to push:

      Equity Win Tie Loss Hand
      Hero: 35.969 % 35.969 % 0.000 % 64.031 % QsQc
      Villain: 64.031 % 64.031 % 0.000 % 35.969 % KK+, JJ-TT, AcKc


      BUT, if opponent is not playing JJ and TT this way (pre-flop call), but only KK+, AcKc (AKs) then our equity is about 15%.
      I guess, if you think he doesn't have JJ-TT here like ever, then fold.
      Without reads, I think, a good TAGish opponent would fold TT, JJ, AcJc often enough, when solid UTG+1 re-raises him.

      I elect to fold.
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      I think shove is a little better than fold on the flop
      He would likely play JJ the same way, he is very likely to play any flushdraw or even straightdraw that way and also sometimes bluffing
      That is enough to shove there QQ
      and there are not too many hands that beat you kk, aa (not so likely since players usually 4-bet them pf), TT, 99,55