Forgetting the value of money

    • advola
      advola
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.06.2009 Posts: 361
      Hay...
      i am experiencing alot latly the feeling that i dont have value for money
      that mean - becouse i am swinging hundreds of $$$ every day
      (up and down) and sometimes 1k$..
      i feel that in everyday life
      i care very less about the money becouse of that
      and forget the value of money
      i dont know if it is good or bad....

      you have any thoghts of that to?
      and to the ones that swing only 1k$ on a bad day - how it is for you?


      btw: for my country the av. for hour is : 5.5$-7.5$
  • 20 replies
    • ihufa
      ihufa
      Gold
      Joined: 18.03.2008 Posts: 3,323
      i feel a lot like you, if something costs less than 100$ i don't usually bother checking the price. To me that seems pretty standard but my friends find it funny.
      :f_biggrin:
    • fun101rockets
      fun101rockets
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.06.2008 Posts: 1,162
      i used to have that feeling (when i was playin higher stakes) ince i moved down that chaged
    • Phgrinder
      Phgrinder
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.02.2009 Posts: 1,002
      you'll feel the value of money once you start losing again.
      even if you had a bankroll of 1M or 250.. if you feel like its ok to lose it, its not going to matter until you really need the money.

      you have to respect BRM and what you can buy with the money your wagering everything you play poker.

      like they say "you'll never miss the water until the well runs dry"
    • mafaz
      mafaz
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.12.2007 Posts: 222
      yeap same here.... i dont even play as much poker as i used to just because money dont mean much to me and you realize that money cant buy you happyness.... so you start doing something else that brings you happyness...

      I dont even care about 50$ nowadays which was quite a lot 2 years ago for me... And when the average wage in my country is like 400-500$... and thats pretty sick i dont really like not valuing money anymore... but i guess its better than counting every penny so i dunno...
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      Things that are easy to gain and lose naturally decrease in value. I don't really see much downsides to that.
    • justkyle88
      justkyle88
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 7,596
      i dont have swings that big but i know where your coming from. Especially after a big mtt win, i treat mysef, buy loads of pointless crap and shout friends.
    • silent21
      silent21
      Global
      Joined: 08.08.2008 Posts: 1,556
      i had a similar problem and the solution i found works pretty well for me. i have a full time job for around 1.5-2k and i had no money issues in the beginning when i was playing nl25 but from the moment i started with nl100 and 500-1k swings i started to de-value my job and generally everything material. the solution which i found is not to cashout anything from my BR and just use my salary as primary income and i extra cashout just for holidays/trips etc

      if u are full-time player i would recommend you to use similar solution. regardless of the limits you play/$ you win just say to yourself that every month you will cashout some sum and consider that as your "salary" and of course when u want to buy something expensive and useless(yes we do it often) relate it to your "salary" not to the money u swing in poker.

      gl at the tables
    • Fongie
      Fongie
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 4,978
      I tihnk it's just good, makes you tilt less and play better at the tables, as long as you don't develop any really expensive habits in real life
    • Catinthewall
      Catinthewall
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.09.2009 Posts: 50
      As someone who's had one job before this one (Washing dishes for <$2 an hour, that sucked), even playing for stacks at NL2 can leave me giddy, but I've managed to learn to focus on the blind value, so when I did brief explorations into NL10 territory (Grr Everest, why no NL4? :f_frown: ) I was only a little tighter cardwise, but still had a strong AF, I didn't turn into a Tight passive player.

      Part of my advantage IMO is I have a clear plan what my bankroll is going to be doing, not just today, not just until it's a specific size, but until I've played for several months. Also because if I withdraw it, the house will rake it. Gotta love parents. :f_mad:
    • andreibalint
      andreibalint
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.04.2009 Posts: 872
      I think not giving a crap about money is very helpful, not just in poker, but also in other areas of life (having fun, investing/business, setting higher goals for yourself).

      I lost in 2 months of playing the salary i would make here as a full-time cashier for example in 4-5 months, and more than what any of my parents make in a month.

      But i still can't say i don't give value to money, if it's useless i won't buy it (search youtube for the useless machine ever).

      One of my univ teachers told us that in order to feel the value of the money you have to borrow some... so borrow money for a car and try to give it back for example would be a cure. But i would personally stick to not giving a crap.
    • ihufa
      ihufa
      Gold
      Joined: 18.03.2008 Posts: 3,323
      Originally posted by silent21
      i had a similar problem and the solution i found works pretty well for me. i have a full time job for around 1.5-2k and i had no money issues in the beginning when i was playing nl25 but from the moment i started with nl100 and 500-1k swings i started to de-value my job and generally everything material. the solution which i found is not to cashout anything from my BR and just use my salary as primary income and i extra cashout just for holidays/trips etc

      if u are full-time player i would recommend you to use similar solution. regardless of the limits you play/$ you win just say to yourself that every month you will cashout some sum and consider that as your "salary" and of course when u want to buy something expensive and useless(yes we do it often) relate it to your "salary" not to the money u swing in poker.

      gl at the tables
      problem is that if you're a fulltime player you probably don't take out money to live for every month, as your bankroll should already have enough to cover living expenses for the next 6 months atleast :)
    • silent21
      silent21
      Global
      Joined: 08.08.2008 Posts: 1,556
      Originally posted by ihufa
      Originally posted by silent21
      i had a similar problem and the solution i found works pretty well for me. i have a full time job for around 1.5-2k and i had no money issues in the beginning when i was playing nl25 but from the moment i started with nl100 and 500-1k swings i started to de-value my job and generally everything material. the solution which i found is not to cashout anything from my BR and just use my salary as primary income and i extra cashout just for holidays/trips etc

      if u are full-time player i would recommend you to use similar solution. regardless of the limits you play/$ you win just say to yourself that every month you will cashout some sum and consider that as your "salary" and of course when u want to buy something expensive and useless(yes we do it often) relate it to your "salary" not to the money u swing in poker.

      gl at the tables
      problem is that if you're a fulltime player you probably don't take out money to live for every month, as your bankroll should already have enough to cover living expenses for the next 6 months atleast :)
      why do you threat your poker bankroll as your real life bankroll. what i meant is:

      1. you have bank account where u keep your money for rl expenses
      2. you have poker bankroll which you use to play poker and every month regardless of how much you have won/lost you withdraw certain ammount from it to your bank account. to achieve this ofcourse you have to use super solid BRM - probably 100 buy ins.

      generally threat your poker career as like you have business. your company can have income of 100k a month but after all your salary is still a fixed amount.
    • advola
      advola
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.06.2009 Posts: 361
      thanks for all the answers and good to know i am not alone in this.

      Originally posted by ihufa
      i feel a lot like you, if something costs less than 100$ i don't usually bother checking the price. To me that seems pretty standard but my friends find it funny.
      :f_biggrin:
      thats a very exact example to what im experensing!!

      Originally posted by fun101rockets
      i used to have that feeling (when i was playin higher stakes) ince i moved down that chaged
      good to know thanks!!

      Originally posted by Fongie
      I tihnk it's just good, makes you tilt less and play better at the tables, as long as you don't develop any really expensive habits in real life
      yep thats prob the best + in this !
      becouse of that i manage to keep playing a losing session and turn it out to a winning one...
      and since that im removed my stop loss... so that a big + to...
      need to live just a bit less expesive to i spend alot every mounth.



      Originally posted by andreibalint

      One of my univ teachers told us that in order to feel the value of the money you have to borrow some... so borrow money for a car and try to give it back for example would be a cure. But i would personally stick to not giving a crap.
      na... i dont like and understant this idea


      Originally posted by silent21

      generally threat your poker career as like you have business. your company can have income of 100k a month but after all your salary is still a fixed amount.
      yep that is usually what im doing... and that is a great advice
      (im a full time player to...)
      (plus every limit i go up the "salary" go up...)
      and im counting wins as per mounth...
    • arisko
      arisko
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.09.2009 Posts: 392
      I think what silent21 said is something I can agree to. I'm not in the stakes where this is a problem for me yet, but still, I agree to that if you are a poker pro your BR is what you need to go to work. Phil Galfond said something in an interview that was something like this "If you lose a buy-in playing 200/400 PLO that's 40 000$, you could say "okay I could've bought a car with that" but if you catch yourself doing that you're not in the right mindset to play, because what it is is a buy-in. It's not money you could spend, it's money you needed to work, so you couldn't buy a car with that".

      I think this just shows that you shouldn't relate the value of money to the money you lose in a day or win in a day. You have to forget about monetary value when playing poker, and then when you stop "working", you should put on your real life mindset and have the value for money that you think is justifiable. I'm not saying money doesn't lose value as a person gets richer, just saying you shouldn't relate the value of money to poker, saying "this nice shirt is just my big blind, LOL, i'm buying it".

      EDIT: Remember, it's the ability to separate yourself from emotion that makes you a good player at the tables. But the ability to switch back when not playing is what makes you a pro. Don't carry your work outside the workplace.

      Hope it helped a little :)
    • advola
      advola
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.06.2009 Posts: 361
      ^^^

      BRAVO!!! (claps claps..)
      one of the best posts ive read... totaly helped me thanks!!
    • andyb43
      andyb43
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.07.2008 Posts: 903
      Originally posted by andreibalint
      I think not giving a crap about money is very helpful, not just in poker, but also in other areas of life (having fun, investing/business, setting higher goals for yourself).

      I lost in 2 months of playing the salary i would make here as a full-time cashier for example in 4-5 months, and more than what any of my parents make in a month.

      But i still can't say i don't give value to money, if it's useless i won't buy it (search youtube for the useless machine ever).

      One of my univ teachers told us that in order to feel the value of the money you have to borrow some... so borrow money for a car and try to give it back for example would be a cure. But i would personally stick to not giving a crap.
      I would guess that you are pretty young?

      A feel for money develops as you mature (get older :) ) and you need to buy a house - because you have got married you have kid/s ...etc etc.

      Then your parents die, removing your backstop..........

      Anyaway enjoy the feeling whilst it lasts :f_cool:
    • rbdflyboy
      rbdflyboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.07.2008 Posts: 56
      I see poker money as points whereby a measure of success or failure may be derived and measured.
    • arisko
      arisko
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.09.2009 Posts: 392
      Originally posted by rbdflyboy
      I see poker money as points whereby a measure of success or failure may be derived and measured.
      From your point of view, you can make 2k$ playing nl2 and still value your success as much as if you made your 2k$ climbing the stakes up to NL50. I think your way of viewing it has some flaws, not saying it's not correct or that it's worse than anyone elses view. Just saying that no matter if poker is your proffession or your hobby, success should never be measured in money.

      A man with a business will not say "I've succeeded in life, my business now makes a million in profits", instead he will say "my business is exactly what I wanted it to be, I have achieved what I set out for, now I will have new goals.". If you measure success in money, it means that you give an absolute number to success. Either you're successfull, or you're not. You can't be semi-successful. In poker though, if you set a number in your BR that makes you successful, and at the same time have a goal in your mind to be successful, you will unfortunately reach that goal and then have no more motivation to play since you can't succeed more if you already succeeded, and your goal in life was only to succeed. I'm not sure if this makes any sense, but what I'm saying is if you have a goal to always improve, you will never lose motivation.

      The point of this thread is also to value money from a perspective where it's not the main focus, but of course is still important. If you use money as a measure of success, and have a personal goal of being succesful, you will do exactly what a poker player shouldn't do, mix poker money with emotions.

      P.S. sorry if I'm ranting too much, it's late and I'm so bored and I don't make no sense and I'm going to sleep now :f_confused:
    • pinnryder
      pinnryder
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.11.2009 Posts: 597
      I lost the value of my "online" money sometime ago cause it wasn't like real money for me, just some numbers that got higher or lower. That resulted in not only playing online poker but online gambling too and that resulted in almost loosing all of it.
      So through a lot of selfmanagement and will I got away from that.
      So money online is still like real money for me but I don't let it affect my game...
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