[NL2-NL10] NL50 - Stupid play on a paired board?

    • Kknight
      Kknight
      Global
      Joined: 30.04.2007 Posts: 374
      No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (8 handed)

      Button ($24)
      SB ($51)
      BB ($8.35)
      UTG ($81.15)
      UTG+1 ($50)
      MP1 ($44.90)
      Hero ($13.30)
      CO ($14.50)

      Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K:spade: , K:club: .
      UTG calls $0.50, [color:#666666]2 folds[/color], [color:#CC3333]Hero raises to $2.5[/color], [color:#666666]3 folds[/color], BB calls $2, UTG calls $2.

      Flop: ($7.75) 4:spade: , A:spade: , A:heart: [color:#0000FF](3 players)[/color]
      BB checks, UTG checks, [color:#CC3333]Hero bets $10.8 (All-In)[/color], BB folds, UTG calls $10.80.

      Turn: ($0) 6:heart: [color:#0000FF](2 players, 1 all-in)[/color]

      River: ($0) T:club: [color:#0000FF](2 players, 1 all-in)[/color]

      Final Pot: $29.35

      OK, my reasons for pushing the flop:

      1) I figured that with 2 Aces on the board, it was less likely that my opponents held one.

      2) I wanted to destroy the odds for a flush draw

      3) I didn't want to be check-raise bluffed off what was quite possibly the best hand.

      Was this reasoning OK, or was this just a stupid play that guaranteed I would only get calls from better hands? If so, should I have made a smaller bet, or just checked behind?

      Thanks,
      Kknight
  • 8 replies
    • Berliner1982
      Berliner1982
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.07.2006 Posts: 5,644
      Tough spot here, because BB is a Small Stake and can hold everything. If he is a PS.cc SS Player he is 1.) a bad one because he only called Preflop and 2.) often will hold AJ, AQ or AK.
      Since I don´t know that he often also can hold a Medium Pocket Pair.
      UTG shouldn´t hold an Ace here, because he would limp raised with AK or AA. So he will most likely hold a Pocket Pair.

      That said, I would have pushed here as well against 2 Opponents and go broke if somebody holds an Ace. But I think in more then 50% neither of them holds an Ace for me.
    • Kknight
      Kknight
      Global
      Joined: 30.04.2007 Posts: 374
      OK, thanks Berliner. BB was not a PS SSS player. He had a VP$IP of 65%.

      Unfortunately, UTG had AJo...but I'm glad to know that my reasoning was sound.

      Thanks,
      Kknight
    • Berliner1982
      Berliner1982
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.07.2006 Posts: 5,644
      Limping with AJo UTG, what a fish. :D ;)
    • Kknight
      Kknight
      Global
      Joined: 30.04.2007 Posts: 374
      LOL :D
    • Nunki
      Nunki
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2006 Posts: 865
      I wouldn't say that it was stupid. Clearly sub-optimal is closer to the mark. You force your opponents to play correctly by betting this flop (see the replies I have made in a couple of your other posts in similar situations).

      For me it is a no-brainer check behind.
    • Kknight
      Kknight
      Global
      Joined: 30.04.2007 Posts: 374
      I don't think a check behind is a consideration at all here. All you do is give a free card to a flush draw or another pocket pair by checking. I agree with Berliner that more often than not they don't hold an A and I take it down here with a push. Any smaller of a bet than that and I possibly give both opponents odds to call (for example if I bet 1/2-2/3 pot and BB calls, then UTG gets really good pot odds.) Plus I risk being check-raised off what is quite possibly the best hand. I think this board is ideal for a check-raise bluff.

      Kknight
    • Berliner1982
      Berliner1982
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.07.2006 Posts: 5,644
      Originally posted by Nunki
      For me it is a no-brainer check behind.
      And giving a Flushdraw or any Pocket Pair a free card that often would call you here anyway even they are behind? If somebody holds an Ace its bad luck but you can not assume like it was played preflop that they hold an Ace. BB can not only call with AT, AJ, AQ, but also with any Pocket or high suited Cards or high card connectors.

      Maybe you only bet 1/2 Pot here, but I risk to go broke here any time against unknown Players. Only if I have reads on my opponents that they like to play limp Call with Premium hands preflop or like to cold call with Ax preflop I check behind here.
    • Nunki
      Nunki
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2006 Posts: 865
      Originally posted by Berliner1982
      Originally posted by Nunki
      For me it is a no-brainer check behind.
      And giving a Flushdraw or any Pocket Pair a free card that often would call you here anyway even they are behind? If somebody holds an Ace its bad luck but you can not assume like it was played preflop that they hold an Ace. BB can not only call with AT, AJ, AQ, but also with any Pocket or high suited Cards or high card connectors.

      Maybe you only bet 1/2 Pot here, but I risk to go broke here any time against unknown Players. Only if I have reads on my opponents that they like to play limp Call with Premium hands preflop or like to cold call with Ax preflop I check behind here.
      If your opponents are unlikely to give a SSS player any credit and call with anything then betting is OK. IMO though it is no cut and dry decision.

      There are 45 combinations of any two spades (we hold the king and the ace is on the board so these are less likely holdings for most players).

      90 A-x hands, about 65 PP's and about 60ish big-card hands.



      If your opponents are tight but still able to bluff then why not let them. When I suggested checking behind it was with the intention of calling a great many turns.

      Also there will be situations where BB will lead, UTG raises and we will be able to fold correctly most of the time. Position is only $$$ when there is money behind.

      Check for information or to induce a bluff (especially if we are willing to go broke with the hand anyway). There is more value here in calling than betting I believe.