[NL2-NL10] JJ Good Fold ?

    • Trbst
      Trbst
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.09.2007 Posts: 191
      Hi,

      here's what happened:

      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.02/$0.05 No-Limit Hold'em (8 handed)

      Known players:
      MP1:
      $1.80
      MP2:
      $5.07
      MP3:
      $4.81
      CO:
      $4.98
      BU (Hero):
      $9.24
      SB:
      $2.48
      BB:
      $1.92
      UTG2:
      $5.16


      Preflop: Hero is BU with J, J.
      2 folds, MP2 raises to $0.15, MP3 calls $0.15, CO calls $0.15, Hero calls $0.15, SB calls $0.13, BB folds.

      Flop: ($0.8) 8, 4, 7 (5 players)
      SB bets $0.05, MP2 raises to $0.50, MP3 folds, CO folds, Hero calls $0.50, SB folds.

      Turn: ($1.85) 9 (2 players)
      MP2 bets $1.09, Hero folds, MP2 gets uncalled bet back.

      Final Pot: $1.85.




      Here I thought he has either open raised anything from 77 - AA, or even, KT or any other hand giving him two pair, a set, or even a straight. Considering I didn't raise PF I was better off folding... What do you think ?

      Regards,
      T.
  • 4 replies
    • saywhat
      saywhat
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.11.2008 Posts: 253
      Raise preflop, or raise on the flop, but a raise was called for. Other wise you are left completely in the dark and guessing what to do on the turn.
      As far as a fold on the turn, i still would not have folded. Too many hands he could have that you could be ahead of.
      Tough spot, next time raise preflop will help you.
    • LonePiranha
      LonePiranha
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.03.2010 Posts: 65
      Originally posted by saywhat
      Raise preflop, or raise on the flop, but a raise was called for. Other wise you are left completely in the dark and guessing what to do on the turn.
      As far as a fold on the turn, i still would not have folded. Too many hands he could have that you could be ahead of.
      Tough spot, next time raise preflop will help you.
      I agree I'd of raised preflop to around .60 here, and if you get a re-raise then I'd muck the hand. If you get a caller then I'd c-bet on the flop if I got checked to and re-raise if I get bet into. Folding to any resistance.
    • johnbeattie85
      johnbeattie85
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.09.2008 Posts: 716
      I think calling or squeezing pre are both options.

      Flop is kind of hard. Not 100% sure, but I think it's going to depend heavily on the type of opponent MP2 is, + preflop range.

      Calling: Vs a reasonable opponent, you don't have amazing equity against his flop raising range and are probably not getting called by worse hands if you raise youself. But you def have enough equity to call. The problem is, stack sizes are awkward, so you will have to decide on the turn if his betting range is wide enough to justify going all in. I would fold that turn.

      Raising: Vs Calling stations / bad agg players. I think range will be be wide enough to just raise flop and get it in, since they will go too far with weak hands, though it still isn't the best spot ever. Another option is calling flop with the intention of value betting if checked too, or shoving if MP2 continues aggression. I don't like this that much though, since it will be hard to know what to do on certain cards.
    • MaestroOfZerg
      MaestroOfZerg
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 5,510
      Hi,

      Originally posted by johnbeattie85
      I think calling or squeezing pre are both options.

      Flop is kind of hard. Not 100% sure, but I think it's going to depend heavily on the type of opponent MP2 is, + preflop range.

      Calling: Vs a reasonable opponent, you don't have amazing equity against his flop raising range and are probably not getting called by worse hands if you raise youself. But you def have enough equity to call. The problem is, stack sizes are awkward, so you will have to decide on the turn if his betting range is wide enough to justify going all in. I would fold that turn.

      Raising: Vs Calling stations / bad agg players. I think range will be be wide enough to just raise flop and get it in, since they will go too far with weak hands, though it still isn't the best spot ever. Another option is calling flop with the intention of value betting if checked too, or shoving if MP2 continues aggression. I don't like this that much though, since it will be hard to know what to do on certain cards.
      I'm not really thrilled to see a flop with a minimum of 3 other players with JJ, unless they're all very easy to read we'll be screw on any flop with overcards, which basically means we're setmining. I'd 3-bet it almost always unless MP2 was very tight.

      As played I agree with what johnbeattie85 said on the raise-or-call flop conundrum, tho i very much doubt a player who open-raised preflop than raised a minbet on that flop can be considered a calling station ever so i'm assuming he was talking about SB/CO. The question becomes whether MP2 is aggressive enough to do that we bare overcards even tho the board isn't good for him at all.

      I think I'd take your line unless I thought there was enough value in raising against very cally SB/CO to balance out for the time we're forced to 3bet/fold if MP2 shoves (we're behind 77-AA on that board and he might not raise/jam stuff like 99-TT).


      Hope it helps.