I thought AK was a flip

  • 55 replies
    • silent21
      silent21
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      Joined: 08.08.2008 Posts: 1,556
      allin pf with AK on NL10 is massively -ev. donk tend to 3bet loose but they go allin only with super premiums
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
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      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      That's what you get for stacking off with ace hi
    • tcs35
      tcs35
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      Originally posted by silent21
      allin pf with AK on NL10 is massively -ev. donk tend to 3bet loose but they go allin only with super premiums
      It is probably only 1/4 10NL. It gets worse at the end which is 25NL. I understand I can't help losing flips but maybe I should be looking for more spots to fold AK?
    • tokyoaces
      tokyoaces
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      Originally posted by TobyCS
      I understand I can't help losing flips but maybe I should be looking for more spots to fold AK?
      It's not a flip against the hands people are willing to go all in with. It's only got about 40% equity to most people's 3-bet/shove range which means you are going to be quite rapidly going broke.

      You and Equilator or PokerStove need to become friends because right now you are on the path to busto.
    • ihufa
      ihufa
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    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
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    • PocketAcesJohn
      PocketAcesJohn
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      SSS its standard going all in with AK but if your playing BSS its almost never wise getting 100bb all in pre flop with AK.

      Standard lines are to 3 bet. and if you get re poped, generally fold. But if someone 3bets youu you can 4 bet fold.
    • PocketAcesJohn
      PocketAcesJohn
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      Originally posted by ihufa
      Is this your cat that plays heads up for you?
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
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      Originally posted by PocketAcesJohn
      Standard lines are to 3 bet. and if you get re poped, generally fold. But if someone 3bets youu you can 4 bet fold.
      If this is not a level here's a first thing you should reconsider in order to improve your red line.
    • PocketAcesJohn
      PocketAcesJohn
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      Originally posted by NightFrostaSS
      Originally posted by PocketAcesJohn
      Standard lines are to 3 bet. and if you get re poped, generally fold. But if someone 3bets youu you can 4 bet fold.
      If this is not a level here's a first thing you should reconsider in order to improve your red line.
      So your saying then that its ok shiping it for 100bb? Or are you suggesting calling a 3bet instead of 4 betting?
    • randomdonk
      randomdonk
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      4b/folding with AK makes so much sense
    • noclaninator
      noclaninator
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      Joined: 01.12.2008 Posts: 312
      Going all in with AK = BAD

      Folding AK = BAD!

      If it is open to you, this is an easy raise. If someone has raised then 3bet/folding turns your hand into a BLUFF! AK is not a bluff hand so you have 2 choices 3bet/shove or just call.

      You have been 3bet/shoving and your bankroll has paid the price. 3bet/shoving is a good way to isolate yourself against hands you do not want to face.

      Calling a 3bet disguises your hand more. BTW I wouldn't 4bet with AA or KK either. Why would you give AQ and JJ a free chance to fold? So you are basically calling any hand you are playing against a 3bet.

      Postflop when you are playing a 3bet pot make sure you are careful. The good news is you rarely need to protect your hand since it is usually just way ahead/way behind. Suppose you have AK, call a 3bet and the flop comes K87 rainbow. I would try to check down here. AQ needs to go runner runner, QQ JJ TT have 2 outs, AK is a chop, and you dont want to bet vs AA KK anyways.

      So yeah, dont be stacking off with AK unless against some kind of superfish.
    • mbml
      mbml
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      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      you need to plan how you intend to play with AK first. ask yourself these questions:

      -Am I going to get action from worse? (regardless of whether you get called or 4betted, many bad players are going to call with AJ/AQ/KQ and stack off when they hit a pair so it's going to be massively +EV to bet against such players)
      -If an opponent calls with many weaker broadways but only 4bets KK+, obviouisly u should be folding to the 4bet
      -If your opponent's range is tight in the first place, avoid 3betting to isolate yourself against a strong range. I never 3bet a reg who is in Early Position in Fullring and I also usually flat against a UTG reg in 6max
      -A lot of the profit from AK comes from picking up the dead money when you 5bet shoves and your opponent folds his 4bet bluff. People at NL10 aren't 4bet bluffing a lot.

      Thus in conclusion, you should definitely be 3betting your AK mainly to get called by worse broadways, but if you are up against an ultra strong 4bet range you can fold. If you are against JJ+/AK I guess you are committed and should go allin
    • csnmf
      csnmf
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      AK definately isn't a flip it's like 44% against QQ. But the graph you posted isn't really accurate as you really need to include the times when you 4bet and they fold to see the profitability of getting AK all in preflop and it should be showing a profit if you are playing it right.

      As has been said before you don't have to 3bet AK if someone tight from UTG opens then there is not much point to 3bet AK they are unlikely to call and much rather just 4bet and once they 4bet you are behind.
    • justkyle88
      justkyle88
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      Obvsly it is against certain players.
      I mean how can it be profitable to go broke with AK PF against a 13/8 player with a 3-bet of 3% and a WTSD of 10 and W$SD 80.
    • Fongie
      Fongie
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      Originally posted by PocketAcesJohn
      Standard lines are to 3 bet. and if you get re poped, generally fold. But if someone 3bets youu you can 4 bet fold.
      hahaha

      Originally posted by csnmf
      AK definately isn't a flip it's like 44% against QQ. But the graph you posted isn't really accurate as you really need to include the times when you 4bet and they fold to see the profitability of getting AK all in preflop and it should be showing a profit if you are playing it right.

      As has been said before you don't have to 3bet AK if someone tight from UTG opens then there is not much point to 3bet AK they are unlikely to call and much rather just 4bet and once they 4bet you are behind.

      here are the brains in this thread
    • PocketAcesJohn
      PocketAcesJohn
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      Originally posted by Fongie
      Originally posted by PocketAcesJohn
      Standard lines are to 3 bet. and if you get re poped, generally fold. But if someone 3bets youu you can 4 bet fold.
      hahaha


      here are the brains in this thread
      I like how all a COACH who is ment to be there to help/correct people has to say is "hahaha".... I bow down to your supperiousness (whilst im bowing how about you laugh at my spelling aswell?)
    • ihufa
      ihufa
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      Originally posted by ihufa
      here are the brains in this thread :D
    • Fongie
      Fongie
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      Originally posted by PocketAcesJohn
      I like how all a COACH who is ment to be there to help/correct people has to say is "hahaha".... I bow down to your supperiousness (whilst im bowing how about you laugh at my spelling aswell?)
      I wasn't sure if you were joking or not. Anyhow since you say I should help people I should make sure people who read this thread understand that you're wrong and probably joking.

      If you were serious though I left the explanation for why you are wrong right below it. I don't see how I was not helping you and other people aswell ;)

      And I don't really see any bad spelling in your (first) post?