[NL20-NL50] problems with TT-QQ deepstack FR

    • Lizocain
      Lizocain
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.06.2009 Posts: 173
      Hey, I had alot of hands like this, so I decided to ask your opinions.
      I don't have a history but basically they are all the same.

      NL FR 9man
      Ex1: MP1 raise 4bb, Hero (MP3) reraise 12bb, BU/SB/BB reraise to 30bb and you hold TT,JJ,QQ. U have 250bb or more and the 4bet guy has you covered (250bb+). What do you do in this kind of situations? Also, there are no stats, no previous hand hinstory at all, lets say you just sit on the table right that time, or you play rush poker. With a TT and maybe JJ I believe its ok to call for set value, but what about QQ ?
      The flop used to look like this.
      3c6s9h you check and he overraises the pot with around 20-30bb. Normally you cant fold, so I shoved, and he showed KK and next time AA (different persons). Is there a way you can escape your TT-QQ with a lowcard flop? or just go straight 5bet with QQ ? I know its very player dependant, and its alot of luck involved in it, because 4bet cant really be more then KK,AA or a bluff... would like to see some opinions, its NL10 on rush but same goes for unknown players on normal cash games. thanks
  • 2 replies
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,401
      What do you do in this kind of situations?


      For me it's 100% player dependent (and usually that means I refer to stats).
      Trying to generalise in this situation is rather dangerous.

      With that said, and because you asked us to pretend there are no stats and you have no history...then with 250bb I definitely fold TT and JJ pre. I don't want to 5bet QQ since we are somewhat turning our hand into a bluff. I prefer to play a flop and (depending on the play) perhaps willing to get a lot of chips in with no over cards.

      I would say that in FR we are crushed by a 4bet range. I'm not certain we do get the odds to call for self value with TT or JJ (we have to call 18bb and villain's remaining stack is 220 so we get arround 11:1).

      However, I don't think you can call a 4bet for 'set value' with hands like TT,JJ and then stack off just because there are no over cards. Playing like this confuses two different aims. Either you believe your hand has overcard value or you believe you are behind but hope to catch your set - you can't have it both ways :)

      It also makes a difference whether villain is BU/SB/BB as in the second two cases he will have to act first, so it won't always be a case of you having to check. If you call the 4bet in position, SB or BB checks, you bet with no over cards and get check raised you can usually give up the hand.

      (my thoughts for what they are worth)
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      NL10 you don´t see many times bluffs than maybe on nl 200 rush
      So I´d prefer call pf, call flop (since he can still have there AK) and then likely fold turn, since don´t expect him to barrel too many times with worse hands