[NL2-NL10] JJ vs tightish player

    • DecMate
      DecMate
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.01.2009 Posts: 939
      Full Tilt Poker $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 649809
      The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

      CO: $5.00
      Hero (BTN): $8.89
      SB: $5.88
      BB: $5.66
      UTG: $4.30
      MP: $5.00

      Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero is BTN with J :spade: J :heart:
      2 folds, CO calls $0.05, Hero raises to $0.22, 2 folds, CO calls $0.17

      Flop: ($0.51) 2 :spade: Q :spade: 3 :spade: (2 players)
      CO bets $0.25, Hero raises to $0.75, CO raises to $4.78 all in, Hero folds

      Tough spot so i decided to raise to get some info, once he shoves i think i'm beat. This guy was playing tight, so is this the right line to take?
  • 7 replies
    • deeman30Rus
      deeman30Rus
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.02.2009 Posts: 1,559
      if he is unknown then ... well played i think
    • johnbeattie85
      johnbeattie85
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.09.2008 Posts: 716
      Call flop. Can't raise for value or bluff. If your ahead, there is only a small chance of being outdrawn. If behind, you have a decent change of outdrawing villian and don't want to raise/fold with ok equity.
    • DecMate
      DecMate
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.01.2009 Posts: 939
      Originally posted by johnbeattie85
      Call flop. Can't raise for value or bluff. If your ahead, there is only a small chance of being outdrawn. If behind, you have a decent change of outdrawing villian and don't want to raise/fold with ok equity.
      This guy was playing tight when i was playing with him, and if i just flat the flop and he leads at the turn again, i'm in the same situation not knowing wether i'm ahead or not.
    • mishuq
      mishuq
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.07.2008 Posts: 436
      isn't floating an option since we have position ? I'm quite sure we're ahead of Qx hands with no spades, also we're still drawing against a small made flush - 54s -> T9s
    • johnbeattie85
      johnbeattie85
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.09.2008 Posts: 716
      Originally posted by DecMate

      This guy was playing tight when i was playing with him, and if i just flat the flop and he leads at the turn again, i'm in the same situation not knowing wether i'm ahead or not.
      Well yeah. This is a debate some players have.

      My opinion– In any situation where you raise purely for information, calling is always more +EV if you play decently against villains range. Raising for information can only be justified on the expectation that you will make large mistakes on future streets by calling. I think this is a bad way to approach poker, + you will never learn to navigate tricky situations.

      So here:

      Villains flop continuing range might be Ax:spade: , flushes Qx, sets. If you raise and get 3bet, you have your information and know you're crushed, but allow villain to play perfectly and don't get the change to realise your equity.

      If you call the flop instead, you basically just have to figure out what villain is doing on the turn. This can be really tricky sometimes. You said he was tight, I'm fine with assuming his turn betting range is much narrower than flop donking range, and finding a fold if the turn blanks.
    • MaestroOfZerg
      MaestroOfZerg
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 5,510
      hi,

      Originally posted by johnbeattie85
      Call flop. Can't raise for value or bluff. If your ahead, there is only a small chance of being outdrawn. If behind, you have a decent change of outdrawing villian and don't want to raise/fold with ok equity.
      Originally posted by johnbeattie85
      Originally posted by DecMate

      This guy was playing tight when i was playing with him, and if i just flat the flop and he leads at the turn again, i'm in the same situation not knowing wether i'm ahead or not.
      Well yeah. This is a debate some players have.

      My opinion– In any situation where you raise purely for information, calling is always more +EV if you play decently against villains range. Raising for information can only be justified on the expectation that you will make large mistakes on future streets by calling. I think this is a bad way to approach poker, + you will never learn to navigate tricky situations.

      So here:

      Villains flop continuing range might be Ax:spade: , flushes Qx, sets. If you raise and get 3bet, you have your information and know you're crushed, but allow villain to play perfectly and don't get the change to realise your equity.

      If you call the flop instead, you basically just have to figure out what villain is doing on the turn. This can be really tricky sometimes. You said he was tight, I'm fine with assuming his turn betting range is much narrower than flop donking range, and finding a fold if the turn blanks.
      I believe everything has been said :)
    • DecMate
      DecMate
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.01.2009 Posts: 939
      Originally posted by johnbeattie85
      Originally posted by DecMate

      This guy was playing tight when i was playing with him, and if i just flat the flop and he leads at the turn again, i'm in the same situation not knowing wether i'm ahead or not.
      Well yeah. This is a debate some players have.

      My opinion– In any situation where you raise purely for information, calling is always more +EV if you play decently against villains range. Raising for information can only be justified on the expectation that you will make large mistakes on future streets by calling. I think this is a bad way to approach poker, + you will never learn to navigate tricky situations.

      So here:

      Villains flop continuing range might be Ax:spade: , flushes Qx, sets. If you raise and get 3bet, you have your information and know you're crushed, but allow villain to play perfectly and don't get the change to realise your equity.

      If you call the flop instead, you basically just have to figure out what villain is doing on the turn. This can be really tricky sometimes. You said he was tight, I'm fine with assuming his turn betting range is much narrower than flop donking range, and finding a fold if the turn blanks.
      Yeah ok point taken, instead of raising the flop i can get the same information by seeing what line he takes on the turn, instead of raising and wasting cash. Thanks for the reply :)