[NL2-NL10] Instructional sample hands #7

  • Poll
    • What is the correct move here?

      • 19
        call
        43%
      • 16
        raise all-in
        36%
      • 8
        fold
        18%
      • 1
        raise to $6
        2%
      • 0
        raise to $10
        0%
      Total: 44 Votes
    • Puschkin81
      Puschkin81
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2006 Posts: 4,786
      $0.50/$1 (HH Converter by Kreatief)

      CO ($98.00)
      Button ($103.55)
      SB ($193.00)
      BB ($18.50) (Hero)
      UTG ($30.66)
      UTG+1 ($88.15)
      UTG+2 ($96.35)
      MP1 ($100.20)
      MP2 ($22.05)
      MP3 ($31.35)

      Preflop: Hero is BB with 4:club: , 6:club:
      UTG calls $1.00, 6 folds, Button calls $1.00, 1 folds, Hero checks,

      Flop: 5:club: , 2:heart: , 7:heart: ( 3.5BB )
      Hero checks, UTG checks, Button checks,

      Turn: J:club: ( 3.5BB )
      Hero checks, UTG bets $3.00, Button calls $3.00, Hero ???

      We are getting a strong draw on the turn. Can we call the bet or do we have to fold? Or should we push our monsterdraw on the turn?
  • 14 replies
    • degnic
      degnic
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.02.2007 Posts: 3,953
      I think I would push (especially if villains are tight) for max fold equity and if we get called we can still expect to have 15 outs for river. If we just call and hit 3rd :club: on river and Button puts us all-in I think it's not a good situation.
    • undercover82
      undercover82
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.12.2006 Posts: 813
      I would push there as well. Personally i would also bet on flop against 2 opponents with my draw.
    • ciRith
      ciRith
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      Let's say we have 12outs (discounted a bit because we don't draw to the nutflush and the oesd draw isn't clean) so we have 26% equity at the turn where we need 33% to be +EV if we can give ourself 7% fold equity we can push here.

      The other quition is why do we check the turn and then push to a bet AND a call? Why not betting out?

      --> I call. ;)
    • Berliner1982
      Berliner1982
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.07.2006 Posts: 5,644
      I fold here, because I´m weak tight. :D ;)
    • ciRith
      ciRith
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      Originally posted by Berliner1982
      I fold here, because I´m weak tight. :D ;)
      Sure that you are a winning player? ;) Folding 3:1 when getting 25% equity is a mistake. :D
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      I would have bet out turn with my draw- don´t think that pushing all-in is generally +ev. PSB to UTG and call BU indicates that at least one of them will call my all-in push and I´m not sure that I´m even ahead here against 7x or overpair. So I would call and wait if I hit my draw on the river- mostly I don´t:(
    • Berliner1982
      Berliner1982
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.07.2006 Posts: 5,644
      Ok even against 2 Opponents we should have an Equity of 30% here. So we call and if we hit we can bet out or check/raise if we know that one of them will Bet on the River, since even if we get no more money in the pot on the River, the call is profitable.

      If we push we assume only a Set would call us here or a hand like AJs in clubs or hearts and only one would call, we have an equity of 30% so that wouldn´t be enough.

      Result: We call and hope to hit, otherwise we are out of that hand.

      @ciRith

      Their was a reason why I had an ":D " and ";) " in my post before. ;)
    • MisterB73
      MisterB73
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.08.2007 Posts: 32
      We have 15 outs to a straight or a flush. Ok, it is a weak flush but chances are not so very high that somebody else also holds 2 clubs.
      The pot odds good, so I would say call and fold on the river if we miss our draw.
    • vladnz
      vladnz
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2007 Posts: 1,355
      like the SS articles say push monsterdraw
    • MisterB73
      MisterB73
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.08.2007 Posts: 32

      like the SS articles say push monsterdraw
      Yes, but not after a freeride from the BB and certainly not after checking two times before.
    • Kknight
      Kknight
      Global
      Joined: 30.04.2007 Posts: 374
      I voted call as well. I don't think we have enough fold equity against these two to justify a push.

      IMHO,
      Kknight
    • rubysilesia
      rubysilesia
      Silver
      Joined: 03.07.2007 Posts: 351
      Straightflushdraw makes 2:1 udog. Pot odds 3:1, so by calling we are buying next card cheaply. Raising means decreasing EV since I dont think we got enough fold equity against 2 opponents especially shortstack UTG betting previously. All in increases fold equity but ruins the odds. Call is the best line here imo.
    • rubysilesia
      rubysilesia
      Silver
      Joined: 03.07.2007 Posts: 351
      Good point undercover i would bet flop about 2/3 pot for isolation and to block bigger bets.

      Got another thought on this one. If we push:
      - 2 Folds -> nice one we won pot directly;
      - 1 Call -> Pot odds: 9.5(pot) + 17.5(call) : 17.5(all in) ~ 1.5 : 1 its about 40% we hit draw 30% times so we need him to fold about 10% times to make it +EV;
      - 2 Calls -> even better pot odds 9.5(pot) + 2*17.5(calls) : 17.5(allin) ~ 2.5 : 1 no fold equity needed to make it +EV

      Are this calculations right and how am I suppose to do them in 30s while playing? :rolleyes:
    • Puschkin81
      Puschkin81
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2006 Posts: 4,786
      ~49% were right.

      We are getting a really strong draw meaning that we definitely won't fold here. The questions is whether we should call or push.

      Especially at the beginning I strongly recommend that you play according to odds&outs: just call. If you would have more experience and enough information about your opponent (stats+reads) you could also push here, but against unknown I would simply call.

      Good luck at the tables!
      Puschkin81