Which limits to start playing MTT

    • goldchess
      goldchess
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.02.2010 Posts: 641
      Hi

      After a few attempts at $1 MTTs it has become obvious that the quality of play is absolutely awful, and with 4000+ fields the variance is huge. At which limits would you recommend starting MTTs in which the players are reasonable and it is possible to play a normal game? $10?

      Thanks for any feedback
  • 18 replies
    • andreibalint
      andreibalint
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.04.2009 Posts: 872
      Maybe 10$ it's the first level where you don't see complete idiots. Of course it depends what type of tournament is it.

      It's normal to find a LOT more fish in rebuy tournaments for example. And probably also normal to find a lot of fish in large MTT's with a large guaranteed prize.

      And be happy that players are horrible. This translates into making more money!
    • goldchess
      goldchess
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.02.2010 Posts: 641
      The thing I am so often getting the money in good, but it only takes so many 70/30s before we get busted out, really frustrating.
      e.g today guy to my left is reraising litterally every pot and I'm card dead, eventually get pocket 6s in SB v BB, raise-reraise-shove, he calls with J5 and wins...
    • Hahaownedlolz
      Hahaownedlolz
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.04.2009 Posts: 1,755
      Originally posted by goldchess
      The thing I am so often getting the money in good, but it only takes so many 70/30s before we get busted out, really frustrating.
      e.g today guy to my left is reraising litterally every pot and I'm card dead, eventually get pocket 6s in SB v BB, raise-reraise-shove, he calls with J5 and wins...

      I'm grinding $0,25 45 man sng's on pokerstars so i definetly know what you mean. I actualy have run over 100% ROI on over 300 of them, and i've breaked even or lost for 4/6 days i played this week. I didn't even think it was possible to have a losing session with my ROI before this week, very sick bad luck. Donkey's keep sucking out.

      But, they will earn you alot of money in the long run. I actualy ran at like 300-400% ROI in a session a few days ago lol :f_eek:
    • amplifyd
      amplifyd
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 1,769
      Perhaps play smaller 45, 90 and 180 man MTTSNG's at lower limits if you don't feel like trying to luckbox through fields of 7k etc.
    • Atoks
      Atoks
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.06.2008 Posts: 1,354
      Online MTTs are about volume and variance. Play whatever games ur Bankroll can sustain. I'd advise BRM of no less then 400BIs. Don't expect success to come overnight. It might for some but too often it's going to take a very large sample to show a true ROI.
    • ihufa
      ihufa
      Gold
      Joined: 18.03.2008 Posts: 3,323
      Originally posted by goldchess
      Hi

      After a few attempts at $1 MTTs it has become obvious that the quality of play is absolutely awful, and with 4000+ fields the variance is huge. At which limits would you recommend starting MTTs in which the players are reasonable and it is possible to play a normal game? $10?

      Thanks for any feedback
      are you tired of bad players? do you want to play the good ones only? try 109$+R, it has all the pros and none of the dead money that you hate.
    • eteris
      eteris
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.08.2007 Posts: 383
      ihufa you are the best :)
    • goldchess
      goldchess
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.02.2010 Posts: 641
      Perhaps these are profitable in the long run, but they are just no fun at all and incredibly frustrating. My bustout hands from tonight:

      PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 1.1 Tournament, 40/80 Blinds (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

      BB (t896)
      UTG (t1210)
      UTG+1 (t15429)
      MP1 (t2000)
      MP2 (t4060)
      MP3 (t3360)
      CO (t1460)
      Button (t2415)
      Hero (SB) (t950)

      Hero's M: 7.92

      Preflop: Hero is SB with 9, 9
      2 folds, MP1 calls t80, MP2 calls t80, MP3 calls t80, 1 fold, Button calls t80, Hero bets t950 (All-In), 2 folds, MP2 calls t870, 2 folds

      Flop: (t2220) 6, 7, J (2 players, 1 all-in)

      Turn: (t2220) 2 (2 players, 1 all-in)

      River: (t2220) 8 (2 players, 1 all-in)

      Total pot: t2220

      He had J6


      PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 1.1 Tournament, 75/150 Blinds 20 Ante (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

      SB (t5205)
      BB (t32926)
      UTG (t12446)
      UTG+1 (t8018)
      MP1 (t6926)
      MP2 (t7290)
      MP3 (t11897)
      CO (t5968)
      Hero (Button) (t2280)

      Hero's M: 5.63

      Preflop: Hero is Button with K, Q
      4 folds, MP3 calls t150, 1 fold, Hero bets t2260 (All-In), 2 folds, MP3 calls t2110

      Flop: (t4925) J, 5, 7 (2 players, 1 all-in)

      Turn: (t4925) Q (2 players, 1 all-in)

      River: (t4925) 6 (2 players, 1 all-in)

      Total pot: t4925

      He had QJ
    • goldchess
      goldchess
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.02.2010 Posts: 641
      Originally posted by ihufa
      Originally posted by goldchess
      Hi

      After a few attempts at $1 MTTs it has become obvious that the quality of play is absolutely awful, and with 4000+ fields the variance is huge. At which limits would you recommend starting MTTs in which the players are reasonable and it is possible to play a normal game? $10?

      Thanks for any feedback
      are you tired of bad players? do you want to play the good ones only? try 109$+R, it has all the pros and none of the dead money that you hate.
      Mainly, I want to have fun playing poker, and waiting around for premium hands and then getting sucked out over and over again is not my idea of fun. So yes, I would rather play better players ( but obviously not the $109+R lol)
    • Waiboy
      Waiboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.09.2008 Posts: 4,877
      Originally posted by goldchess
      Originally posted by ihufa
      Originally posted by goldchess
      Hi

      After a few attempts at $1 MTTs it has become obvious that the quality of play is absolutely awful, and with 4000+ fields the variance is huge. At which limits would you recommend starting MTTs in which the players are reasonable and it is possible to play a normal game? $10?

      Thanks for any feedback
      are you tired of bad players? do you want to play the good ones only? try 109$+R, it has all the pros and none of the dead money that you hate.
      Mainly, I want to have fun playing poker, and waiting around for premium hands and then getting sucked out over and over again is not my idea of fun. So yes, I would rather play better players ( but obviously not the $109+R lol)
      Hey goldchess

      The point ihufa is making is that you want your opponents to frequently be putting their money in bad and then occassionally sucking out, rather than struggling to find spots to get your money in good and then your opponents occassionally sucking out. DUCY?

      Variance is something you need to get used to - especially in MTTs as the swings are huge. I'd work on your mindset as a crucial step in your development.
    • goldchess
      goldchess
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.02.2010 Posts: 641
      Thank you Waiboy

      You are absolutely right
    • rhinoneil
      rhinoneil
      Silver
      Joined: 16.04.2008 Posts: 1,159
      In any big field mtt you will always get "bad" players or just players who either play weird starting hands or who think they have a big enough stack to take you on with marginal or poor hands or who just think they are on a lucky streak, so you have to get used to the suckouts.
      I dont think there is a massive difference in standard between the $1 and $10.
      Whatever level you play, I would just concentrate on getting your money in good and not necessarily all preflop, i dont for instance understand your shove in 2nd hand example you gave.
      And Ihufa is absolutely right of course, you want to be playing against weaker players than yourself whenever possible, thats the reason you dont move up levels until you are regularly beating the level you are at.
      I used to think exactly the same, that I wanted to play against better players but honestly, its a very expensive way to learn poker
    • akrammon
      akrammon
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.05.2009 Posts: 3,142
      Man, if you enjoy playing MTTs (I love them) you need to get used to this. Actually, I think the 5-10k players is a big positive thing becuase more of them drops out on other tables, and becuase you can make thousands of dollars in a $3+0,30 tourney.

      I also suggest keeping yourself to BRM, don't go to higher limits. To win an MTT on micro limit you need 3 things: BRM; pretty basic MTT skills, which you can get if you play and learn a lot; and the ability to win flips and 60-40 situations, and even that one or two 40-60s when you put it in with the worse cards. You need a lot of luck to win a tournament. It isn't enough, but it is necessary.

      By the way, I think you should try the CAP tourneys on Pokerstars. Somehow they seem to have a slightly better player group. Well, actually I've only tried $8+0,80, 1000cap, cause the one I found for less money were on 8-handed tables, and I don't feel comfortable that way.
      But I think there is a $1+0,10 cap every day somewhere between 10pm and 11pm CET. Well, good luck on finding the things that suit you.

      Oh, by the way, one more thing for the big player pool: By the time you start playing short-handed, you will be getting a decent share of the prize pool. Which I love, considering my lack of abilities in short-handed play. Thats very different, and not everyone can play that (actually, almost noone can play it well without actually learning how to, I think).
    • Leito99
      Leito99
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.07.2009 Posts: 754
      Originally posted by Atoks
      Online MTTs are about volume and variance. Play whatever games ur Bankroll can sustain. I'd advise BRM of no less then 400BIs. Don't expect success to come overnight. It might for some but too often it's going to take a very large sample to show a true ROI.
      really?? no less than 400 buyins?? :rolleyes:
      i guess im luky i didnt go broke yet with 100BI :s_evil:
      maybe soemthing like 200BIs is ok for low stakes

      @akrammon
      if i were you, the next thing i would do is play 400 6max sngs and 200 heads up games before i play another mtt.....ok maybe not so many but still

      its kinda important to play well short handed cuz when you do make that final table, thats when the biggest jump in the money is, and there is a huge difference between 4th place and 1st so
      if you play bad heads up and keep finishing second, its just disastrous, the difference in the money is so much

      and if you play too tight and passive when you get to 6 handed, just as bad
    • akrammon
      akrammon
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.05.2009 Posts: 3,142
      Originally posted by Leito99

      @akrammon
      if i were you, the next thing i would do is play 400 6max sngs and 200 heads up games before i play another mtt.....ok maybe not so many but still

      its kinda important to play well short handed cuz when you do make that final table, thats when the biggest jump in the money is, and there is a huge difference between 4th place and 1st so
      if you play bad heads up and keep finishing second, its just disastrous, the difference in the money is so much

      and if you play too tight and passive when you get to 6 handed, just as bad
      Absolutely agreed. I will need to improve myself on those fields.
    • alenstrat
      alenstrat
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.03.2009 Posts: 821
      I agree with the reply that says you should play smaller fields to reduce the variance. I was pretty much in this same boat a couple of weeks ago. Grinding and grinding and grinding those long tourneys for small payouts .. I agree with what you say - I play poker because I like it, I want to make money and want to have fun. And 1) being tired from all those hours in a single tourney 2) getting sucked out after 6 hours and other factors contribute to those not being very fun in the long run. I guess they are very fun to only those that hit their first final table/big payout soon after they began playing. So definitely, playing smaller fields 45/90/180 SNG is more fun if you have a similar definition of fun as me. Give them a try if you haven't .. I'm finally enjoying poker, at least the last week since I made the switch. Quick tourneys, quick results, less fish's suckouts you have to dodge, but enough fish to make it profitable.
    • Igorica
      Igorica
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.05.2010 Posts: 10
      If you want to have good bakroll menagement do not play at any tourmanet where buy in is larger than 4% off your money. If you want to play with good players learn how to play PL Omaha Hi and play one of the Pokerstars tournaments that you can find on TOURNEY/REGULAR/MEDIUM od LOW
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      Originally posted by Igorica
      If you want to have good bakroll menagement do not play at any tourmanet where buy in is larger than 4% off your money. If you want to play with good players learn how to play PL Omaha Hi and play one of the Pokerstars tournaments that you can find on TOURNEY/REGULAR/MEDIUM od LOW
      4% ?? Thats only 25BI lol. You'll go broke in a day or so :P I think 100BI is fairly safe on the lowest limits, but when you get to like 20$ at least 250 BI is good.