Bet size MTT

    • alenstrat
      alenstrat
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.03.2009 Posts: 821
      I'm playing in most of the SCOOP low NL Holdem tourneys. I notice something weird, the standard raise size seems to be 2.5x or so. Is there any reason for this? Am I missing something?

      What I do notice is the hand range is very wide, most of these raises are with Q10s or suited connectors or junk like that.
  • 7 replies
    • rhinoneil
      rhinoneil
      Silver
      Joined: 16.04.2008 Posts: 1,159
      I think people are starting this 2.5X raise for 4 reasons.
      1. And most likely of all, they have been watching too much poker on TV.
      2. They are making a raise they can get away from if reraised
      3. They are disguing a big hand
      4. When the blinds are higher, 2.5X is probably enough of a raise to take it down unless against a strong hand.
    • akrammon
      akrammon
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.05.2009 Posts: 3,142
      2.5 BB preflop raise should be enough after the first couple of blind levels, I think. Actually Ive just watched a video of a guy who is a professional tourney player and has just came 4th on a sunday million and his raises are sometimes as low as 2.2 BB, it should be enough, of course it depends on the opponents a lot.

      But I agree that many of these raises from beginners mean "I can still fold if they push back on me".

      However, like on 200/400, 1000 is mostly enough, I think. Even with ante. Well, as I said, depends on opponents. However, you should give yourself a raisesizing-"range". Harrington suggests somewhere between 2 and 5 BBs (2 and 5 only on rare occasions), he thinks variating raise sizes can be a good way of balancing. I dunno, I mostly raise the same amount throughout a blind level, if it seems to work.
    • zhorzh
      zhorzh
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.03.2007 Posts: 65
      Not sure about that 2.5 bet size....
      If I am late in the tourney, in the BB and have round 10BB, I would definitely pay 600 for 1600 almost with any two cards....
    • akrammon
      akrammon
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.05.2009 Posts: 3,142
      I am not sure I get that last post, however, if you have 10BB you 1. should raise to 10bb and not 2.5 and 2. you shouldnt be calling down anything (unless you have aces and plan to donk allin on any flop... which is an interesting plan, but it might work in many cases... anyhoo, thats a different topic).

      Pot odds doesnt play if you have a very short stack. You're almost committing yourself with "any two cards", and thats a big mistake.
    • ghaleon
      ghaleon
      Black
      Joined: 17.10.2007 Posts: 5,877
      Some people are missing the fact that in later part of MTT's blind stealing becomes more and more important. Also stack sizes are more shallow so there is no need to use any 3BB open bet. Smaller bet will give same result and if someone 3bet on you? Well 0.5BB less spent for that steal is actually quite nice. Obviously you also raise in same way with marginal hands like 67s and with AA, if there is no need to do otherwise.

      Calling down even 2x bet with 10BB without position with almost any two is just horrible (and horrible is way too nice description)... There is no way it could be profitable, if opponent is not very passive and easily readable in postflop. If situation is sb vs bb and sb use 2bb, which is bad play as well especially with antes, calling very wide is viable option. Because of pot odds and the fact that you have position postflop.

      For me standard open bet size is 2.2-2.6 BB in big blind levels. Bigger ones are only for value against some calling machines.
    • akrammon
      akrammon
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.05.2009 Posts: 3,142
      @ghaleon: Exactly. You have to start saving your chips, you can't allow yourself to lose 3bb every time you face a resteal allin. Also, It won't be hurting your comfortzone that much if someone calls you.
      (raise to 3bb and a call from the bb makes the pot 6.5bb plus ante, which often means 7.5-8bb, making your cbet 4bb [at least]. If you raise to 2.2BB, pot will be 6-6.5bb, making your cbet 3bb, so you saved almost 2bb. Most of those players who call the 2.2-2.5bb raise usually call the 3bb raise as well on these limits at least)
    • TheRebuz
      TheRebuz
      Platinum
      Joined: 12.10.2008 Posts: 2,078
      Originally posted by zhorzh
      Not sure about that 2.5 bet size....
      If I am late in the tourney, in the BB and have round 10BB, I would definitely pay 600 for 1600 almost with any two cards....
      if I understand u right ur saying that at 200/400 level, when u have ~4k stack, u call lets say for ex. M3 open raise to 1k with any 2???

      then what?