Continuation bets in micro

    • alenstrat
      alenstrat
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.03.2009 Posts: 821
      Pointless right? No one ever seems to fold, so unless I hit someting I never make a bet anymore. The only way to actually shake people off is with an all in, but that's of course pointless if you didn't hit something and even if you hit something but don't have the nuts.

      Tried for a couple of days last week, playing looser with continuation bets (ie how I'd play in a tourney), but there really seems to be no way to shake off people in the micros even if they didn't hit anything either. I see people calling all the time without even overcards, ie calling stations from the blinds calling with J2 or shit like that.
  • 25 replies
    • degre
      degre
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.04.2009 Posts: 413
      Mark the calling stations, cbet the others.
    • roswellx
      roswellx
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.12.2008 Posts: 599
      FYI, it's not only at micros... It's just ppl at microstakes are more passive and they call. It's not a bad thing bcoz you can sometimes hit something along the way and punish them for calling your cbets (I'm not saying cbet recklessly). At small stakes ppl start fighting back. Everbody knows a cbet is a standard move so ppl get trickier and start raising, bluff check raising and donk betting etc.. Try to pick your spots when you cbet, try to understand opponent types and what boards they are folding/not folding. This is the only way to keep your cbet success rate high.
    • alenstrat
      alenstrat
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.03.2009 Posts: 821
      what boards they are folding/not folding. This is the only way to keep your cbet success rate high.
      Thanks for the replies. I think I'll look into this.
    • Mrt1989
      Mrt1989
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.11.2009 Posts: 29
      In micro limits you shouldnt be bluffing , they will call u down with their pair.
      You should not be cbeting when you dont hold nothing and the board is draw/flush heavy.
    • goldchess
      goldchess
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.02.2010 Posts: 641
      If you think your opponents never fold, try playing fixed limit 0.02/0.04 :D
    • supeyrio
      supeyrio
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.11.2009 Posts: 3,106
      u need holdem manager.
    • degre
      degre
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.04.2009 Posts: 413
      Originally posted by supeyrio
      u need holdem manager.
      Surely would help, but would be enough already to start taking notes on people, every room allows you to, so why not doing it?
    • h0m1e
      h0m1e
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.03.2010 Posts: 223
      It really depends on your opponent,if he is a calling station, just check if you have air, also stats really help you, you can almost always cbet TAG's which call you pf maybe with small pocket pairs or suited connectors,if he raises just fold.Hope it helps.
    • thebigheizung85
      thebigheizung85
      Silver
      Joined: 12.08.2006 Posts: 195
      In micro limits you shouldnt be bluffing , they will call u down with their pair


      I wouldn't consider a cbet against a single opponent in the micros on a board that is hard to hit for the biggest part of his range a bluff. Of course you should not cbet against several opponents.
      But it is definitely not the case that it is absolutely not working.
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      just have a foldtoflop cbet on your hud
      >70%, cbet 100% of your range
      <40%, cbet only AXX, KXX and other dry boards, c/f the rest of them if you have air
    • supeyrio
      supeyrio
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.11.2009 Posts: 3,106
      Originally posted by degre
      Originally posted by supeyrio
      u need holdem manager.
      Surely would help, but would be enough already to start taking notes on people, every room allows you to, so why not doing it?
      well with a tracker program, you dont need to estimate things like vpip, aggression, pfr, fold to cbet, etc. note taking are much better usage if you to take notes that are not reflected in stats.
    • cauelaratta
      cauelaratta
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.02.2010 Posts: 86
      Originally posted by alenstrat
      Pointless right? No one ever seems to fold, so unless I hit someting I never make a bet anymore. The only way to actually shake people off is with an all in, but that's of course pointless if you didn't hit something and even if you hit something but don't have the nuts.

      Tried for a couple of days last week, playing looser with continuation bets (ie how I'd play in a tourney), but there really seems to be no way to shake off people in the micros even if they didn't hit anything either. I see people calling all the time without even overcards, ie calling stations from the blinds calling with J2 or shit like that.
      I´ve played about 50k hands on PartyPoker micros and that has not been my experience so far.

      Bluff cbets work very well for me. I´d say I get villain to fold about 70% of the time.

      Lots of micro players will call with any two cards preflop just to see if they hit something like top pair or better. When they don´t, they usually go for a check/fold on the flop, or check/call when they´re on a draw. In this second case, you have to think whether it´s wise or not to fire a 2nd barrel. Remember: they are a bunch of calling stations, yes, but they´re not suicidals. They will call with a gutshot draw.. but it´s still a draw. So you still can get them to fold a lot of hands.

      Just remember which spots are good for cbets. What´s written in the articles is pretty much what I´d reccomend as well. I almost always bluff cbet against one or two opponents, but never against three or more.

      Against one player, I don´t cbet on specially tricky flops like 3 :diamond: 4 :diamond: 9 :diamond: or J :spade: J :heart: J :club: , but I still cbet a draw heavy flop like 9 :club: T :heart: 7 :club: depending on villain´s stats. And against two players I don´t cbet on draw heavy flops, but I do cbet on flops that look harmless.
    • alenstrat
      alenstrat
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.03.2009 Posts: 821
      I haven't been using cbets since I posted this, though I'll experiment soon with some of the advice here as to what boards to cbet on. But my experience so far on Full Tilt is that people don't fold virtually anything. Maybe, just maybe, an Axx Kxx board if they don't have ANYTHING. If they have even the lowest pair or a low pocket pair they'll call, unless you bet above pot size - and betting that much would definitely be unprofitable compared to how many times you'll take the pot vs. how many times you'll find out someone does have something or hits something. A cbet on other dry boards like 942 of different suits will also get normally called by anyone with even one overcard. And of course most will fold on a sick board (4 of a suit, 4 consecutive cards) .. but there you wouldn't be betting without the nuts anyway.

      I guess the conclusion is that it really takes putting all the factors together to successfully cbet at these levels with so many loose players or calling stations calling down everything - look at stats, notes, board composition, etc.
    • overson
      overson
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.04.2008 Posts: 195
      Depending on variance the overall fold to cbet on fulltilt at NL5 is 37% to 43% and about 40% is breakeven, so cbetting will basically balance your play and help you get payed off when you hit but besides that is about equal to checking I think.
    • roswellx
      roswellx
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.12.2008 Posts: 599
      General strategy at micros is this:

      Play unbalanced against bad players, play balanced against good players...

      Unbalanced play:

      If you have air don't bet, if you have something (flush draw, OESD, TP+, in some cases 2nd pair) bet.

      Balanced play:

      You need to mix up your play in order your opponents to not exploit you. Basically you bet or check/raise to extract value with your good hands and your air hands. You check/fold with your air hands and check/call with medium strentgh hands.
    • Trbst
      Trbst
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.09.2007 Posts: 191
      Hi,

      There is something to consider here as well.

      If you have an overpair or other nice hand you want to bet for value, the case is clear - you bet.


      However, since we're talking about players that don't fold their hands while we bluff C-bet, I would like to ask this question:

      With a hand like AK for example, where you have naturally raised pre-flop, in which situations is it more profitable to check it behind, and seek the showdown value, and in which situations is it more profitable to bluff c-bet to try and shake villain off ?


      I think checking behind is a fundamental part of poker we all overlook. Thing is, I still can't put together all the factors that would favor that.

      So, let's hear it ... :)
    • strosdegoz
      strosdegoz
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.11.2007 Posts: 184
      I get lots of people to fold with cbet on the micros.
      Its almost incredible how easy they fold.
    • roswellx
      roswellx
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.12.2008 Posts: 599
      Originally posted by strosdegoz
      I get lots of people to fold with cbet on the micros.
      Its almost incredible how easy they fold.
      This is not constructive... We're discussing a strategy here. We are not bragging I won X $ or lost X $.. You can post this in Our Success area.
    • CrocHunter
      CrocHunter
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.10.2008 Posts: 46
      Risk and reward you need to take some risks dont play scared, thats how everyone becomes successful. Don't get me wrong you should defenitly play good BRM and play according to SHC but at some point you gotta take the risk. Do you think Pro sports athletes or Poker pros would be where they are today without any risk, make the fish pay.
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