Fate / Fatalism is Poker predetermined?

    • Grailer
      Grailer
      Global
      Joined: 19.11.2009 Posts: 321
      Fatalism is a philosophical doctrine emphasizing the subjugation of all events or actions to fate or inevitable predetermination.

      Fatalism generally refers to several of the following ideas:

      That free will does not exist, meaning therefore that history has progressed in the only manner possible.[1] This belief is very similar to predeterminism.
      That actions are free, but nevertheless work toward an inevitable end.[2] This belief is very similar to compatibilist predestination.
      That acceptance is appropriate, rather than resistance against inevitability. This belief is very similar to defeatism.

      --------------------------------------------------------------------
      If we apply this to poker every hand is predetermined ( which is true since the deck once shuffled if everyone played the hand to river and we could see the cards in the deck we would know who is going to win )

      We blame bad beats on luck , but what if it was fate that dealt us these bad beats and not luck ?

      If someone makes a bad call because they are bad players but win , why did they make this bad call that just so happened to allow them to win ? Fate ? Luck ?

      ---------------------------------------------------------------------
      Therefore , it doesnt matter what you do , if you were not going to win , you cannot win thus accept the fact that you probably have already lost before you even see the final card come.
  • 39 replies
    • DTCC1
      DTCC1
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.04.2009 Posts: 15
      ok
    • johnbeattie85
      johnbeattie85
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.09.2008 Posts: 716
      [ ] Cool story.
      [ ] Understands Fatalism.
      [x] Copied and pasted from wikipedia.
      [x] Fails.
    • Grailer
      Grailer
      Global
      Joined: 19.11.2009 Posts: 321
      is there proof that fate doesnt exist ?
    • ihufa
      ihufa
      Gold
      Joined: 18.03.2008 Posts: 3,323
      Your stupidity never ceases to amaze me big guy.

      Now go play in the aquarium that they call nl2 again before someone posts something along the lines of "you suck", which you will inevitably understand as "post nl2 hands please" and this already horrible thread gets derailed into what every thread you post in ends up being.
    • Kruppe
      Kruppe
      Black
      Joined: 20.02.2008 Posts: 2,144
      ZOMG, you teh very cool, OP
    • One12ver
      One12ver
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.05.2008 Posts: 249
      I think grailie had a bad night @ the tables. :f_biggrin:
    • Tampaloeres81
      Tampaloeres81
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.03.2009 Posts: 1,416
      Originally posted by One12ver
      I think grailie had a bad night @ the tables. :f_biggrin:
      +1:f_o:
    • Grailer
      Grailer
      Global
      Joined: 19.11.2009 Posts: 321
      This hand might prove fate is real .

      Now here is the story ... all night long i have been set mining , and I couldnt hit a single set in about 15 hands at least . I had to fold a few times to all in because obviously they had AA or KK etc but if I could see the flop I would with a pair.

      Then the ONE HAND I FOLD THAT WAS CHEAP TO CALL I MISSED A SET WTF

      Here is what was said ... after the hand.


      $0.01/$0.02 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)

      Known players:
      SB:
      $2.23
      BB:
      $2.00
      UTG1:
      $7.12
      UTG2:
      $3.78
      MP1 (Hero):
      $2.55
      MP2:
      $2.06
      MP3:
      $1.24
      CO:
      $2.00
      BU:
      $1.70


      Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 2, 2.
      CO posts deadblind, UTG1 calls $0.02, UTG2 raises to $0.12, 7 folds, UTG1 calls $0.10.

      Flop: ($0.29) 4, K, 2 (2 players)
      UTG1 checks, UTG2 bets $0.14, UTG1 calls $0.14.

      Turn: ($0.57) 7 (2 players)
      UTG1 checks, UTG2 bets $0.27, UTG1 calls $0.27.

      River: ($1.11) 8 (2 players)
      UTG1 checks, UTG2 checks.

      Final Pot: $1.11.
      Results follow:

      UTG2 shows high card ace(Q A).
      UTG1 shows a pair of kings(K J).

      UTG1 wins with a pair of kings(K J).



      Grailer: wtf lol i had 22 when u raise with AQ flop was 2 lol
      Grailer: u know how much that hurts to see
      Grailer: the only pair ive folded tonight , i hit set and ahhhrhhhe
      Grailer: its enough to make one ti lt



      I win a few pots and then I get a pair ... Now 99.9% of the time im folding to this all in because i know that i will probably lose however this is where Fate comes into play . Did Fate decide I will win this hand ? Is this why I always lose with AA when I shouldnt ?

      Fate like Death has a master design!


      #Game No : 9222182285
      ***** Hand History for Game 9222182285 *****
      $2 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Tuesday, May 11, 03:19:43 EDT 2010
      Table Table 177781 (Real Money)
      Seat 6 is the button
      Total number of players : 9/9
      Seat 5: Grailer ( $2.91 USD )
      Seat 1: HandsomeStas ( $2.32 USD )
      Seat 7: KeLvinpartyp ( $1.14 USD )
      Seat 8: Mr_M_i_n_d ( $1.65 USD )
      Seat 4: Predokk888 ( $3.33 USD )
      Seat 3: lelapepa ( $7.62 USD )
      Seat 9: riviro ( $1.62 USD )
      Seat 2: smajl1337 ( $2 USD )
      Seat 6: wl_1975 ( $2.03 USD )
      KeLvinpartyp posts small blind [$0.01 USD].
      Mr_M_i_n_d posts big blind [$0.02 USD].
      ** Dealing down cards **
      Dealt to Grailer [ 7s 7d ]
      riviro raises [$0.08 USD]
      HandsomeStas folds
      smajl1337 folds
      Grailer: this is the one
      Grailer: i feel it

      lelapepa calls [$0.08 USD]
      Predokk888 calls [$0.08 USD]
      Grailer: omg so much action is this worth it
      Grailer: i need quads

      Grailer calls [$0.08 USD]
      wl_1975 folds
      KeLvinpartyp is all-In [$1.13 USD]
      Mr_M_i_n_d folds
      Grailer: all in isnt good
      KeLvinpartyp: AA? KK? QQ? AK?
      Grailer: cause like

      riviro folds
      KeLvinpartyp: :)
      lelapepa folds
      HandsomeStas: AA or KK
      Grailer: this is my last hand so i tell u what
      Grailer: i call u win
      Predokk888 folds
      Grailer: i win 1 in 4 maybe
      Grailer calls [$1.06 USD]
      ** Dealing Flop ** [ 7c, Ts, 4s ]
      ** Dealing Turn ** [ 6h ]
      ** Dealing River ** [ 3c ]
      KeLvinpartyp shows [ Ah, As ]a pair of Aces.
      Grailer shows [ 7s, 7d ]three of a kind, Sevens.
      Grailer wins $2.42 USD from the main pot with three of a kind, Sevens.
      Grailer: bad luck mate fate has decided u lose
      Game #9222183514 starts.





      KeLvinpartyp: hohoohoh lool
      Grailer: u cant say i didnt give u action :)

      lelapepa folds
      Predokk888 folds
      Grailer folds
      wl_1975 folds
      Mr_M_i_n_d folds
      riviro folds
      Grailer: i told u tho i feel it
      HandsomeStas calls [$0.06 USD]
      ** Dealing Flop ** [ Qs, As, 7c ]
      Grailer: i miss 15 sets in a row
      HandsomeStas checks
      Grailer: so i know its coming
      Grailer: 1 time lol










      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.01/$0.02 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)

      Known players:
      UTG2:
      $2.32
      MP1:
      $2.00
      MP2:
      $7.62
      MP3:
      $3.33
      CO (Hero):
      $2.91
      BU:
      $2.03
      SB:
      $1.14
      BB:
      $1.65
      UTG1:
      $1.62


      Preflop: Hero is CO with 7, 7.
      UTG1 raises to $0.08, 2 folds, MP2 calls $0.08, MP3 calls $0.08, Hero calls $0.08, BU folds, SB raises to $1.14, 4 folds, Hero calls $1.06.

      Flop: ($2.54) 7, T, 4 (2 players)


      Turn: ($2.54) 6 (2 players)


      River: ($2.54) 3 (2 players)


      Final Pot: $2.54.
      Results follow:

      Hero shows three of a kind, sevens(7 7).
      SB shows a pair of aces(A A).

      Hero wins with three of a kind, sevens(7 7).
    • ihufa
      ihufa
      Gold
      Joined: 18.03.2008 Posts: 3,323
      like a freakin monkey... i wouldn't be surprised if he's litterally insane
    • Sailer85
      Sailer85
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.10.2009 Posts: 2,558
      Originally posted by Grailer
      Fatalism is a philosophical doctrine emphasizing the subjugation of all events or actions to fate or inevitable predetermination.

      Fatalism generally refers to several of the following ideas:

      That free will does not exist, meaning therefore that history has progressed in the only manner possible.[1] This belief is very similar to predeterminism.
      That actions are free, but nevertheless work toward an inevitable end.[2] This belief is very similar to compatibilist predestination.
      That acceptance is appropriate, rather than resistance against inevitability. This belief is very similar to defeatism.

      --------------------------------------------------------------------
      If we apply this to poker every hand is predetermined ( which is true since the deck once shuffled if everyone played the hand to river and we could see the cards in the deck we would know who is going to win )

      We blame bad beats on luck , but what if it was fate that dealt us these bad beats and not luck ?

      If someone makes a bad call because they are bad players but win , why did they make this bad call that just so happened to allow them to win ? Fate ? Luck ?

      ---------------------------------------------------------------------
      Therefore , it doesnt matter what you do , if you were not going to win , you cannot win thus accept the fact that you probably have already lost before you even see the final card come.
      BUt this also implies that if you get a bad beat and rand about it you were predetermined to do so :P
    • milosx
      milosx
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.12.2008 Posts: 16
      Originally posted by Grailer
      That actions are free, but nevertheless work toward an inevitable end.
      ---------------------------------------------------------------------
      Therefore , it doesnt matter what you do , if you were not going to win , you cannot win thus accept the fact that you probably have already lost before you even see the final card come.
      So essentially you're saying that if you suck at this game no matter what you do eventually you'll end up broke. :f_cry:
      You can always get a job at McDonalds, don't worry. It's your destiny.
    • 8979687
      8979687
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.11.2008 Posts: 2,225
      Originally posted by ihufa
      Your stupidity never ceases to amaze me big guy.

      Now go play in the aquarium that they call nl2 again before someone posts something along the lines of "you suck", which you will inevitably understand as "post nl2 hands please" and this already horrible thread gets derailed into what every thread you post in ends up being.
      Wow IDK if this was a level but you just stressed how correct his post is about predetermination.
    • cryoburn
      cryoburn
      Silver
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 322
      Then you shouldn't really worry about anything.

      Btw try taking a stroll blindfolded at night in a highway to test your theory.
    • Psderrr
      Psderrr
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.04.2010 Posts: 111
      ^Too much of a chance of random luck he should dive off a cliff in a bin hey if it's destiny you won't die right?

      Destiny, oh fuck you should just run off with the Super Adventure Club.
    • cryoburn
      cryoburn
      Silver
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 322
      One thing is predetermined for sure.

      You won't grow a brain. :f_mad:
    • Hahaownedlolz
      Hahaownedlolz
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.04.2009 Posts: 1,755
      Just when i started wondering, why he hasn't he posted a hand in this thread.. he does lmao..


      p.s. If you come play at pokerstars i will start learning NL BSS :D
    • nibbana
      nibbana
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.12.2009 Posts: 1,186
      Originally posted by ihufa
      like a freakin monkey... i wouldn't be surprised if he's litterally insane
      I love that he took the time to comment on your PTR
    • ihufa
      ihufa
      Gold
      Joined: 18.03.2008 Posts: 3,323
      hahaha i hadn't seen that :D
    • Grailer
      Grailer
      Global
      Joined: 19.11.2009 Posts: 321
      Originally posted by milosx
      So essentially you're saying that if you suck at this game no matter what you do eventually you'll end up broke. :f_cry:
      You can always get a job at McDonalds, don't worry. It's your destiny.
      no im saying it doesnt matter how good at this game you are , if you have AA and someone for some unknown reason just happens to be on tilt or misclicks and calls your raise with 27 and the flop just happened to be 227 then is this luck ? or was it fate .
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