[NL2-NL10] Trouble with pocket aces

    • jass1960
      Joined: 15.04.2010 Posts: 709

      I wonder if you can help with analysis of these 2 hands and see how I can improve my play for the future.

      I am fairly new here and did some analysis of my play yesterday and came to the conclusion that I am making the usual newbie mistake of playing 2 many hands. So I stuck to the starting hand chart - my problems started when I had some good starting cards!!!!

      My thinking in italics.

      Hand 1

      SB 5
      BB 10
      Villain Raise 40
      Hero Pocket Ah As raises £1

      everyone folds and Villain calls

      Flop Qh Ts 8s

      AA overpair looking good

      Villain Checks
      Hero bets 3/4 pot £1.61
      Villain Calls

      AA still looking good - Villain possible AQ and doesn't want to let it go or chasing flush draw.

      Turn 3s
      Villain possibly made flush draw
      Villain checks

      Maybe he hasn't made the draw
      Hero 3/4 pot £2.68
      Villain raises and goes all in

      Possibly made flush and slow playing or bluffing? If he had made flush, I can still beat it with a spade on the river - decide bluffing and call.

      Villain has pocket QQ and the river is no help.

      Hand 2 - 20 minutes later

      SB 2
      BB 4
      Hero AA raises £0.16
      Villain calls

      everyone folds

      Flop 7s 3s 9d

      Nothing to worry me there except possible flush draw

      Hero bets 3/4 £0.28
      Villain calls

      Turn 4d

      Now 2 possible flush draws to worry about, but I still have the best position so another bet

      Hero bets £0.70
      Villain calls

      River 2d

      Flush draw a definite possibility but want to get value from my hand (and I can't lose again, surely)

      Hero bets £1.71
      Villain raises and goes all in

      Has he made flush draw or bluffing? Read article this morning on poker tells - looking at names can give you clues - his name was lionbluffer - a bluff then?

      Hero Call
      Villain Ad Kd and makes his flush.

      In retrospect, I feel that maybe I should have let both hands go (I gave up KK and QQ this morning when A flopped and lots of aggression was shown), but would that have been the right thing to do?

      Comments please.
  • 15 replies
    • Xavier006
      Joined: 21.04.2010 Posts: 5
      Ok this is my perspective on your hands. I'm not a poker expert but I've read a couple of books and multiple articles on hold'em.

      Hand 1, you could've afforded to raise a little higher, roughly three times your opponents raise. I'd play premium hands more aggressivly pre-flop. It adds pressure and helps induce mistakes along with other advantages.

      I personally can't fault your flop play except possiblly a slightly higher bet, but I can for your play on the turn. He's performed an authentic representation of a flush, (cold calling your flop bet and raising you on the turn when the flush draw falls,) strongly suggests that your aces are beaten. In this case I'd fold unless you really happen to have a good reason he's bluffing.

      Pre-flop you were the statistical favourite and the odds of him hitting a set are over 8:1; therefore you were unlucky however, in future I would deffinitley play premium cards stronger pre-flop. Your opponents have worse odds to call, and therefore as previously mentioned may make mistakes wih strong yet inferior pre-flop hands.

      Your second hand to me is much easier to analyse. Firstly, your opponent played badly. The odds of hitting a backdoor flush are roughly 22:1, and at a guess I'd assumed he called because his hand was too strong to fold in his opinion yet to weak to raise, which happens a lot at low stakes.

      On the turn, you were right to be nervous of the flush draw, so you should've made a much more robust protection bet; definitely pot sized. This reduces your opponents odds to call, meaning his EV decreases as his play isn't profitable.

      Some part of your thoughts I'd like to comment on (and I can't lose again, surely.) This isn't poker thinking, sorry but poker requires dispassionate thinking for optimal profit; you can plausibly loose a premiun hand five times in a row by being outdrawn.

      Also for the river, I'd check and be prudent. Your opponent seems to be a weak player who's got excited by the prospect of a winning hand and gone all in in the hope of achieving a big win. A simple rule for the river is "Don't call massive bets with marginal hands," and in this part of the round your aces, an overpair are unfortunatly marginal.

      Although in both cases I would like to add you were very unlucky and these things happen
    • jass1960
      Joined: 15.04.2010 Posts: 709
      Thanks for taking the time to comment

      I have to say that I agree with your perspective...

      Yes, I should have been more aggressive....

      And, your justified criticism of my 'I can't lose again' is spot on.. in retrospect, I know this will happen and although this is my third AA bad beat on the trot, statistically AA is going to win me a lot of money in the long run.

      Thanks again
    • jass1960
      Joined: 15.04.2010 Posts: 709
      As something of an update - I had AA 4 times today - 3 times everyone folded so I just got the blinds - and the other time a short stacker went all in with KK and made trips on the river!!!

      Not that I complaining....

      I read on someone's strapline that AA was overrated - they may have a point.

      On the flip side I have limped into flops with pocket 22, 33 and 44 and made a great return when I hit trips.
    • Sailer85
      Joined: 15.10.2009 Posts: 2,558
      AA is still my most profitable hand 1000+bb/100

      so dont think its overrated
    • Kidsoldja
      Joined: 18.05.2010 Posts: 51
      AA is definately not overrated its the best starting pair PRE FLOP you can have, but i would agree with Xavier that those type of hands need to be played better. AA PFR is generally the way to go if your on the button and have more than 2 callers in the pot, you never want to have many callers in the pot when you have AA. as it increases the chances of you getting beaten by FD, trips or SD. thats juts my opinion. Now if I was in the early position and you have multiple calls and raises then thats where i have to be more aggressive.
    • jass1960
      Joined: 15.04.2010 Posts: 709
      Thanks for the input guys
    • h0m1e
      Joined: 28.03.2010 Posts: 223
      AA is not overrated, it is by far the most profitable starting hand of all for me.
    • Jakejenks
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 13
      AA is a great hand pre flop, it simply is the best possible combination of cards etc etc. The problem is that many players don't appreciate the drop in value after the flop has come down, especially if you are OOP. Getting as much money in PrF ensures your money is in good. While you dont want to scare your opponents away, taking a medium-large pot down PrF is better than losing a large pot on later streets.
    • NightFrostaSS
      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      Stop bluffcaching in spots where people never bluff
    • elite23q
      Joined: 09.05.2010 Posts: 18
      I seriously don't think you could have won that hand in anyway..

      I couldn't see many people folding QQ at those limits either.

      It was always going to be a race.

      The only thing i probably would have done different is checkcheck river imo
    • NightFrostaSS
      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      Originally posted by elite23q
      I seriously don't think you could have won that hand in anyway..
      Losing less when you are beat is winning also.
    • jass1960
      Joined: 15.04.2010 Posts: 709
      Thanks for all the comments guys
    • DomenViBritannia
      Joined: 11.05.2010 Posts: 24
      AA is definitely not overrated, as it is the best starting hand one can have. The problem comes when one cannot let go of the aces once he's beaten, because it looks too tasty to fold. One just has to get over it and fold when he's sure he's beaten.
    • Timo
      Joined: 08.08.2008 Posts: 522
      Hey jass1960,

      unfortunately this is the wrong forum. This forum is for feedback concerning the content that is offered by PokerStrategy.com.

      in order to get your hands evaluated, you have to post it into our sample hands forum. The professional handjudges of PokerStrategy.com are happy to help you there. Also you have to make sure that you convert the hand correctly, this makes it a lot easier for the handjudges to evaluate your hand.

      You should probably have a look at this this sticky, it contains all the information on how to post a sample hand.

      Since you didn´t say which strategy and limit you are playing (very important information!) I moved this thread into the No Limit BSS Bronze Forum for you.

    • caltabiano
      Joined: 09.03.2007 Posts: 1,992
      AA is obviously overrated :D

      Nah, really, it's obviously the best hand of all time. This is not really questionable.

      About the hands: The first hand should be raised bigger pre. 3x your opponent's raise, as suggested.
      On the flop, you can't really fold. You've invested over 50% of your stack (I assume you had 100bb) and you have an overpair with a redraw to the nuts in a 3b pot. That hand is super nutty! He could definitely have a Q there. Or maybe even worse, depending on what kind of a player he is.
      Either way, you're priced in for a call.

      On hand 2, we can fold the river. I doubt he's bluffing there.
      You have shown a lot of strength by 3 barreling and when he c/r, he's not expecting you to fold. He's got a bigger hand than AA for sure!
      So muck it, as you still have a lot of money behind.

      And btw, before posting the next hand, please read this in order to make our lives (the hand judges) easier =) : PokerHand Converter Guide