Play it wrong?

    • elite23q
      Joined: 09.05.2010 Posts: 18
      Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, 1.2 Tournament, 15/30 Blinds (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from

      Button (t1035)
      SB (t1440)
      BB (t1500)
      UTG (t2085)
      UTG+1 (t1500)
      MP1 (t1500)
      Hero (MP2) (t1500)
      MP3 (t1440)
      CO (t1500)

      [color:#009B00]Hero's M: 33.33[/color]

      Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A, K
      [color:#CC3333]UTG bets t60[/color], [color:#666666]2 folds[/color], [color:#CC3333]Hero raises to t210[/color], [color:#666666]5 folds[/color], UTG calls t150

      Flop: (t465) 7, 9, 8 [color:#009B00](2 players)[/color]
      UTG checks, [color:#CC3333]Hero bets t320[/color], UTG calls t320

      Turn: (t1105) A [color:#009B00](2 players)[/color]
      UTG checks, [color:#CC3333]Hero bets t970 (All-In)[/color], UTG calls t970

      River: (t3045) J [color:#009B00](2 players, 1 all-in)[/color]

      Total pot: t3045

      UTG had K, 10 (straight, Jack high).
      Hero had A, K (one pair, Aces).
      Outcome: UTG won t3045

      Damn microstakes
  • 4 replies
    • jass1960
      Joined: 15.04.2010 Posts: 709
      Well I am no expert, but for what it is worth I think that you played it wrong and were too aggressive. But if it is any consolation so did your opponent.

      I read on Poker Strategy that with SNG tournaments patience is a virtue and in the early stages your ambition should be survival. One of the articles advises in the early stages hoarding your chips and not chasing any hand that isn't made after the flop.

      So as you can see you were both wrong - you only had 2 overcards on a draw heavy board and he only had K high and was chasing the OESD.

      It seems like you played the hand as if it was a cash hand in a tight aggressive style - raise his initial raise; betting aggressively on the flop and then all in the turn - without really considering what you opponent had. That is fine (well sort of fine) in a cash game because you can put in more cash, but in an SNG your are gone

      In SNG if UTG starts the action I am very wary - he could be a poor player (as this guy was), but generally he has something good (I don't class KT as good!!).

      So I would expect minimum AA-77 or AK/AQ/KQ - you flopped 789 - I would immediately be worried about pocket pairs making trips as well as a straight draw being made, or a possible TT giving the chance of OESD.

      If he has trips or a straight he could happily slow play you as you were being so aggressive - checking and calling all the way to the bank.

      As it was the guy was a moron and on the one hand you you were unlucky - but you shouldn't have been in that position!!

      I would have played very conservatively.

      UTG starts - that is a interesting move - you could make some money if the cards fall right - so I would have called or raised only 60 - 2 reasons - don't want to scare him off if you hit on the flop - if had a brain he would have folded and you would only have collected 60 plus the blinds. And secondly maybe he has a monster like AA, KK and you don't want to give chips away if the cards fall right for him.

      On the flop he checks - has he nothing or is it slowplay? Conning you?

      You only have A high so why not check or just a small raise 60 (just to see if you can scare him off).

      An ace on the turn looks good, but that it is only AA and there is a real possibility of trips being around, so yes be aggressive but not mad say 240.

      He is still calling everything you do, which is a worry because he must guess you have at least AA.

      And the J comes on the river - increasing the possibility that he has a straight - if he checks again I would suspect slowplay and check or a small raise 120 - and if he bet first I would fold, pronto.

      It may seem boring, but if you played conservatively and checked all but the turn raise you would have 1200 chips left and even if you bet every time you would still have 960 to play with and get back into the game.

      You could argue that he was incredibly lucky getting the J - which he was, but I would argue that 9 times out of 10 your opponent would have something much better to play that way from UTG and your AA would not have been good enough and you would have got punished again.

      Hope this helps and was not too negative - and I repeat it is only my humble opinion, I am sure there will be better answers for you from better players than me!!!!

      But I would say look at the SNG articles they are really good.
    • NickNick83
      Joined: 25.10.2009 Posts: 8
      You ran into a donkey! Or a fish, whatever...
      I don't have to explain why... Just beware, they're out there. :)

      Looking at the cards you both had, you played well.
      Looking only at your cards, I don't know where to start. Jass' reply pretty much covers it. Top notch, Sir.

      Constructive criticism: You played it like a maniac. There's aggression and there's what you did. If you're aiming to be a "tight-aggressive" player, remember that we're talking about two traits as a whole. It's not about being tight 1st, and than aggressive.

      See it this way, your pre-flop play was acceptable: tight (AK) and acting on the situation - aggressive.

      On the flop, again: with a check to you, you might be in front, test it. But here's where the problem started. With that raise you're throwing pot control out the window. You still don't have a clear idea of what he might have! And if he calls, you might be in trouble. You were aggressive because you bet, but it wasn't tight because you bet too much.

      The Ace on the turn just made things worse. Another check, you don't know where he's at. All you know is he has to have something, hopefully a pair. Top pair, be aggressive and bet. But here, again, you were aggressive but you weren't tight because of the amount involved. I think he's call made you anxious.

      From my own experience, I can say all-in's are to be used with a pinch of salt. Even with two pair, be wary... Always look for straights, the flush, draws, a paired board... Tightness isn't only about choosing starting hands, it's about when you play them. Not how you play them. How? With aggression and tightness! :)

      One more thing, the blinds were to small to start going to war like that. Watch your opponents, how they bet, what they play, when they play...
      Gather information.

      I hope this helped and didn't sound silly.

      "Love the fish. He's your friend." :9
    • elite23q
      Joined: 09.05.2010 Posts: 18
      How much should have i had bet on the flop/turn?

      Just wondering
    • NickNick83
      Joined: 25.10.2009 Posts: 8
      Don't get worked up about losing these type of hands, especially against this "class" of opponent...

      In the long run, you should be feeding off them. Also, there are lots of them playing these stakes, or even higher!

      The beauty of this game is that there are so many ways of playing it. Again, in this hand you where spot on. But you can't say you knew what he had after check/calling the flop! Scenarios: overpair (AA even!), a set, a very creative/loose pre flop play which landed him a two pair, A7, A8, A9...

      You caught a tool that thinks he was getting even money on that sick draw... And this, with an oe straight draw, because on flush draws they look at the suit and don't even blink! You'll find guys that would have shoved on the flop even, but that's a hole nother breed, and chapter...

      My main problem with your play was the all-in, the rest depends on you finding your comfort level, your way of playing it.

      I'm no expert and I don't play regularly now, but I'm proud to say playing poker hasn't cost me a cent. For what it's worth, I've put in over 200 euros in live game buy-ins and I've played a lot online. I've got a positive balance... Not much, but still positive!

      I post this reply especifically because I've played similar hands, losing them obviously:) Sometimes even with just a Q high-card (always in front till the river...) I've learn't though, that without a pair I was actually trailing to undercards on a draw. But on the other hand, sometimes not even your set will keep them from drawing out on you...
      Also, today I find great pleasure in taking out over aggressive players. Not that I'm calling you one, but your play is a good business card:)

      Finally, on this hand you would have had me on the flop! :f_eek:

      "Love the fish! He's your friend." :f_love: