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45 Man - TurboSNG vs. RegSNG

    • thedahl
      Joined: 07.04.2008 Posts: 270

      I started about a week ago playing SNGs for my first time (with strategy). I would say I'm a pretty decent poker player, profitable SSS and BSS with 20k sample size or so. But that was the past. I hear lots of people talking about how turbos are filled too much with variance and you need a 1,000,000,000 (thats a billion) sample size before you can see if your a luckbox or good. I don't think this is true necessarily.

      Before I say this let me assure you I know I haven't played even close to enough SNG's to even talk about me being moderately OK but it just seems to easy. I am playing the $1.00 + $0.10 45 man turbos on Stars and have currently played a total of 35 games. (1st- 3 , 2nd- 1, 3rd- 3, and 4th- 1) bringing my bankroll from $50 to $91. Nothing special, I'm a luckbox, I get it.

      People say that it is push or fold stage is almost instant in turbos but my question is why is that a bad thing? Push or fold stage gives me an advantage over the next :f_p: next to me doesn't it? As long as I am better than 10 people I am playing with in the 45 man I am going to be making an OK profit.

      So voice your opinion, stand up for turbos, or bash them, I want to know about it.

      Questions I am asking throughout this rant:
      1. What do you think a good sample size is?
      2. Are these turbos extremely beatable or am I just getting some fishy luck? (don't even mention the fact I am playing $1s or I will kick you in the shin)
      3. How much harder does competition get as I move up?

      Thank you! Don't rip into me too hard :f_confused:
  • 3 replies
    • pondlife78
      Joined: 14.02.2009 Posts: 25
      I don't really know about the right sample size, I've played around 400 $1 45 mans and made about $.40 a game but your ability to play them changes so much as you play more that it is hard to ever say what your winrate is.
      At the micro stakes they are very beatable because people don't know good strategy for the push/fold stage so you have a big advantage. As you move up the proportion of good players increases till most are playing optimum strategy and at this point it is near impossible to gain an advantage so you lose to the rake. :f_o:
    • Zukes
      Joined: 13.08.2009 Posts: 183
      I normally don't play MTT sngs, I've played 500+ single table sngs at the micro limits and I think there is a noticeable difference between the regular tables and the turbos. Your thinking that playing push/fold according to ICM gives us an edge over the fish is correct, however it ignores some other important factors which make this edge even bigger.

      1. Your push/fold game is more advantageous when there are fewer players remaining at the table (I'd imagine this is the same principle for MTT's). We want to have had plenty of hands in the early and middle phases so when we get to push/fold there are fewer players to contest. We can shove more hands profitably this way and we are also closer to being in the money. This is more likely to happen on the regular tables, where the blind levels are like twice as long.
      2. Even though I play sngs and turns+rivers scare the hell out of me, we do have a pretty big edge over the fish in postflop play too :s_biggrin: You should take advantage of this in the early stages because we only play made hands and therefore there is a lot less variance to worry about.

      I think because of this I have found the regular tables a lot easier to beat than the turbos. There is just so much more variance on the turbos, probably even more if you're playing 45-man MTTs. The only issue is that the regular tables take longer and therefore require more patience, but you get used to it over time and when you're multitabling you don't get as bored.
    • alenstrat
      Joined: 13.03.2009 Posts: 821
      I've started playing some 45 man Turbo SNG with moderate success. I think it's very fertile terrain for TAG's like us. I don't think normal speed is worth your time, too much time and effort for too little profit per hour.

      So far on turbo I observe tons of Ax low all inners, everyone thinks any ace is a great hand. So if you play our tight aggressive starting hands you'll be off to a great advantage in most hands.

      However I do think you need to play a bit looser to take advantage of this in early stages (most the fish are out in the first 5-10 minutes). I'm allining any pair 8 and above, and A10 and above in early stage, where the fish are mostly shoving low Ax or worse. And I'll call any small stack allin with Ax or low pair (most of them will be shoving any high card Q and above or worse).

      I only get back to standard TAG play when I build a large stack.

      Turbo is pretty brutal, I think I end up reaching top spots more times where I was virtually dead and hit a couple of allin hands in a row then the times I've been in the chip lead early on.