[NL2-NL10] Instructional sample hands #8

  • Poll
    • What is the right play here?

      • 28
        bet $0.75
        49%
      • 24
        all-in
        42%
      • 3
        check
        5%
      • 1
        fold
        2%
      • 1
        bet $0.55
        2%
      Total: 57 Votes
    • Puschkin81
      Puschkin81
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2006 Posts: 4,786
      As the preflopraiser we are often heads-up on the flop. According to the strategy we always bet here to push the opponent out of the pot. Since our stack is small the question is whether to make a normal bet or to push all-in directly.

      Hero ($2)
      UTG+2 ($10)

      Preflop: Hero is MP1 with T:spade: , T:club:
      UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls $0,10, Hero raises to $0,50, 6 folds, UTG+2 calls $0,40.

      Flop: ($1,15) 5:diamond: , 7:heart: , J:heart: (2 players)
      UTG+2 checks, Hero ???
  • 18 replies
    • mcofko
      mcofko
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.04.2007 Posts: 12
      I would bet 0.75$. He could have a small flush draw or he has maybe J Q-. If he would have A J or K J, he would probably raise on preflop.
    • Chiller3k
      Chiller3k
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.06.2007 Posts: 4,326
      I would make a conti bet around .75$
    • Kknight
      Kknight
      Global
      Joined: 30.04.2007 Posts: 374
      I was tempted to vote fold just because it is a funny choice :D , but I voted c-bet $0.75

      I saw someone on a forum one time with a signature that said something like:

      "I open-fold to give my checks more credibility" lol

      Kknight
    • Yoghi
      Yoghi
      Black
      Joined: 10.09.2007 Posts: 14,387
      C-bet. Your hand isn't made or draw, the board is pretty drawy but because of the check it seems like you're still ahead.
    • masterxcvt
      masterxcvt
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.08.2007 Posts: 36
      seems like i'm the only one who bets 0.55$:D i'm special :D
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      I´m tempting to go all-in here following reasons:
      - 0,55 is not good enough and it gives good enough odds to call/push with flushdraw
      - 0,75 is close, but that leaves me only 0,75$, which means that almost 2/3rd of my stack is in the pot and I´m pot committed and can´t fold whatever turn brings
      - I´ve some fold equity against flush draw (not at NL10 level, but in higher levels:D ) and hands like AT, A9, KQ might fold.
      - I don´t give him chance him to bluff with overcards or flush draw and he can´t call +EV my push if he doesn´t have j+ or better.
      - Pot contains already 1,15$+my 1,50$- that´s enough to leave profitable at the table and find another fish who is willing calling my pre-flop without decent pot odds;)
      - NL 10 players seem often all-in push as blufbet with overcards and they might call you with lover pocket pairs, over cards, draws or middle/bottom pairs. You should be mostly ahead here and if you have some luck, then double up:P
    • ciRith
      ciRith
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      As a SSS and NL fish I voted all-in. :)

      My ecxplaination: Max. protection. :/
    • Berliner1982
      Berliner1982
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.07.2006 Posts: 5,644
      We´re in Position, we have a made hand, a C-Bet would make any sense here, because then we are all-in any way, so I push it. For other reason look at Kaitz20 Post. ;)
    • MisterB73
      MisterB73
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.08.2007 Posts: 32
      I'd prefer not to contradict a coach :D but I don't see us holding a made hand. Ok, we have a pocket pair, but it isn't an overpair because of the J on the board. So I would say, make a conti-bet of $0.75 and fold if he resists (check/raise from his part would certainly be a bad sign).

      If he calls I would check/fold on the turn and the river unless ofcourse we hit our T or the backdoor straight with 9, 8.
    • aciddrop
      aciddrop
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.10.2006 Posts: 1,519
      If we make any bet here, and we must, as I see it, then we're all in, because any reasonable bet will take most of our stack. Therefore, all in.
    • Berliner1982
      Berliner1982
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.07.2006 Posts: 5,644
      @MisterB

      Folding on the Turn with nearly 6:1?
      He could have a Draw or mostley just an underpair to our Tens. And yes our Pair of Tens is a Made hand and when I´m heads up I do not care if their is an Overcards.

      And what do you do on the Turn, if an Ace appears after you made a C-Bet on the Flop? Checking behind and telling your Opponent "Please check on the River again because I´m afraid of the Ace and you can bluff me off my hand"?. If and Ace, King or Queens come you often have to represent that as well on the Turn, but you do that without Fold Equity.

      So you see, a C-Bet is as good as an All-In, because you loose eitherway. 1. because he had a better hand or 2. because you fold on the River, when you checked behind on the Turn, when an Ace came.

      So its either all-In on the Flop or give up your hand. And on NL $10 I take my chances. ;)
    • vladnz
      vladnz
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2007 Posts: 1,355
      EASY all in
    • MisterB73
      MisterB73
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.08.2007 Posts: 32
      @Berliner1982
      Ok, this is very educating for me.

      I'm inclined to believe you are right, but the reasoning behind it is not clear to me. The way I would reason is as follows:

      The 6:1 on the turn, are these pot odds? I would say we'd have pot odds of approx 4.5:1. We would have $0.75 left and the pot would be $2.65. After he would bet the remaining $0.75 on the turn the pot would become $3.40, so we would have to pay $0.75 to win $3.40. And that would translate into pot odds of approx. 4.5:1.

      And what are our chances of holding the best hand? I would say that our odds are not that great, especially when one of the dreaded cards appear on the turn.

      So, I would say in the long run I'd save money by just playing a c-bet.

      Please explain to me where my reasoning is wrong... Thanks!
    • aciddrop
      aciddrop
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.10.2006 Posts: 1,519
      It sounds like you are wanting to make a cbet, and then fold. This has to be -ev. More than half your stack is in the pot.

      There is only one overcard, and the chances that he has that one are low. You have a strong pair, possibly the best hand. All in here will more likely win the pot without further action than not. Otherwise, if called, it is still very likely the best hand, and can win, but we have to make no more difficult decisions.

      To just cbet, then let the hand go, will cost us the pot very often, because our cbet will be called plenty. It just isn't strong enough. Then, we not only lose our original investment preflop, but our cbet more than half the time as well.

      I think check/fold the flop would be more +ev than cbet.
    • rubysilesia
      rubysilesia
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.07.2007 Posts: 351
      This hand is not bad on the flop considering his check. But will be getting worse with every street with just 2 outs therefore I would push here.
    • Berliner1982
      Berliner1982
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.07.2006 Posts: 5,644
      @MisterB

      You´re right the Odds were wrong.

      But, why do you want to C-Bet the flop with the Intention to give up your hand when he calls you? That makes no sense, because eitherway you believe that you´re ahead (in most cases you will be) then you can go All-In, because you want to avoid a decision on the Turn where you HAVE to move All-In no matter what card appears. Or you believe you´re beaten and check behind and give up your hand right away.

      The problem is, if you C-Bet the Flop and he calls (he could do that with a Draw or any weaker made hand on this limit. And on the Turn an Ace appear, it does not matter if you bet here (representing the Ace), because your Opponent is getting good odds to call here or check behind and allow your opponent to bluff you out the pot on the River with nothing, because you showed him that you´re afraid of the Ace.

      So avoid this difficult decision and decide if you see yourself ahead on the Flop and push it, or if you believe you´re beaten - then give up your hand.

      Only one Overcard to your Pair does not mean that your ONE Opponent has a Jack. He could also check/raise you with an weaker Pair, because he believes you´re on Overcards.
    • MisterB73
      MisterB73
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.08.2007 Posts: 32
      Ok, thanks aciddrop and Berliner1982 for the explanations.
      You've convinced me to indeed push on the flop and why to do so.
    • Puschkin81
      Puschkin81
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2006 Posts: 4,786
      HI guys!

      36% were correct here:

      We have one opponent on the flop and make a continuation bet. Now we have to make a decision whether we bet 2/3 of the pot and fold to any further action or go all-in directly because our stack is less than 1.5 of the pot.

      But there is only one choice: We go all-in.

      Why:

      Many opponents call our raise preflop with a pocket pair or a weak hand which hopes to improve – like 78o or similar hands. Against these hands we are way ahead on the flop. But often our opponets will raise with these hands because they put us on high cards like AK. If we give our opponents the opportunity to push us out of the pot with such a hand we are loosing value in the long run.

      For this reason we avoid that our opponents push us out of the pot and push all-in. These weaker hands will often call us meanwhile we are not folding the best hand. Of course it will happen that we run into a strong hand like for example a set or in this case a hand with a jack. But a pocket pair which calls our preflopraise already made a mistake.