What can I possibly do about that?

    • Requ1em
      Requ1em
      Basic
      Joined: 09.09.2007 Posts: 26
      I went broke in one week on NL10...

      Since I wanted to improve my poker play, I saved my hands and looked them through after having played. Here are the hands which finally broke my neck because it was about the big pots - I think I made no mistake, but judge for yourself and give me an opinion please. I just asked myself, what can I possibly do about that... since I only got 50 Dollar I just had my basic bankroll and a "downswing" in the beginning breaks your neck because you were not able to build up a bankroll.

      I will keep the "handhistory" short, the first written hand is my hand:

      Wednesday, 12.09.07
      KK vs. AK, he gets the ace on the river.
      KK vs. AK, he gets the flush on the river.
      KK vs. JJ, gets the jack on the Turn (he was all in before the turn).
      QQ vs. 66 gets the 6 on the river.

      Thursday, 13.09.
      Didn't play on thursday

      Friday, 14.09.
      Won small pots.

      Saturday, 15.09.
      44 vs. 55, I get the 4 on the flop, he slowplays the 5.
      AA vs. QK, he gets QKK on the flop (preflop all in - he was a small stack).
      99 vs. 22, he gets a 2 on the River.

      Sonntag, 16.09
      I got two pairs on the flop, he gets a higher second pair on the river.
      QQ vs. JJ, he gets the flush on the river.
      KK vs. 1010, he gets the straight.

      Montag, 17.09
      QQ vs. 10J, turn and river 10 and Jack.

      Dienstag, 18.09
      Took a break since I was extremely frustrated.

      Mittwoch, 19.09
      AA vs. 78offsuit, he gets the straight on the river.
      Same opponent two hands later:
      AQ vs. KQ, I get the ace on the flop, he gets the straight on the river.

      Donnerstag, 20.09
      AJ vs. KJ, I get the ace on the flop, he the straight on the river.


      I'm simply frustrated at the moment...
      I'm sorry for not supplying you with more facts to these hands, but none of the hands were flush- or straightdraws and when I made my move and got called or when I called/raised/played all in, I always got the better hand (the only situation where I didn't have the best hand was 44 vs. 55 - my opponent played smartly - still, how likely is it to face a second set if he just limped in on the flop?).
      My opponents often played all ins in these situations or if they didn't I put much into the pot and they called it down to the very end.

      I lost almost all of the hands I was clearly ahead - or, if I really won them, it was no big pot...

      It just sucks

      Andy



      P.S.: I wanted to write it into the "Downswing reports" Forum but unfortunately I am not allowed to post there...
  • 15 replies
    • howard182
      howard182
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.10.2006 Posts: 416
      You played BSS NL10 with $50 (the "he was a small stack" seems to indicate this)? That's your first mistake right there, even a known winner could go broke that way.

      As to your hands... bad beats happen. Don't bother examining the results, look at all your hands and find your mistakes. While it's possible that you lost your money just through bad luck, it's more likely that you made significant and frequent mistakes.

      Everyone gets bad beats, for example this hilarious hand I played on saturday:

      Known players: (for a description of vp$ip, pfr, ats, folded bb, af, wts, wsd or hands click here)  
      Position:
      Stack
      SB:
      $63.87
      BB:
      $132.85
      Hero:
      $97.50

      0.50/1 No-Limit Hold'em (5 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grabem 1.7 by www.pokerstrategy.cc.

      Preflop: Hero is BU with 9:diamond: , T:heart:
      2 folds, Hero calls $1.00, SB raises to $2.00, BB calls $1.00, Hero calls $1.00.

      Flop: ($6.00) T:diamond: , 9:club: , 6:heart: (3 players)
      SB bets $61.87 (All-In), BB folds, Hero calls $61.87.

      Turn: ($129.74) 5:heart:
      River: ($129.74) 7:spade:


      Final Pot: $129.74

      Results follow (highlight to see):
      SB shows [ 8h, 4d ] a straight Six to Ten
      Hero shows [ 9d, Th ] two pairs, Tens and Nines
      SB wins $127.74 USD with a straight, Six to Ten.

      Bad beats only happen when we're getting the money in as a big favourite, so we're making money there in over many trials. Bad beats are not your problem, look harder and find it.
    • Requ1em
      Requ1em
      Basic
      Joined: 09.09.2007 Posts: 26
      Yes, I played BSS. Why is it a mistake? I don't think it is a mistake pushing in money when you're the favourite. I looked at all my hands. Between these hands I always made + or just a wee bit minus but usually I made money. But nevertheless, these bad beats were the hands why I got broke finally. I wasn't losing much on the rest of the hands, but these situations broke my neck.


      "Bad beats only happen when we're getting the money in as a big favourite, so we're making money there in over many trials. Bad beats are not your problem, look harder and find it."
      Yes, they are my problem in this case because I have to push in money when I'm a big favourite, I did so and lost. Since I got no big bankroll and got quite plenty of these bad beats in the beginning I couldn't play any more, so there are no more trials for me to win in the long run. That is why I consider exactly that as the main problem.

      But thanks for your reply anyway :/

      Andy
    • Yoghi
      Yoghi
      Black
      Joined: 10.09.2007 Posts: 14,387
      Your bankroll wasn't big enough to play NL BSS, therefore if you're on a streak of bad luck it's a lot more likely to go broke even though you might play well.
    • howard182
      howard182
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.10.2006 Posts: 416
      Whether you made money in other hands isn't the issue, it's whether you consistently maximised winnigns and minimised losses given the information available, and if you think you did that you need a reality check. We can all improve.
    • Puschkin81
      Puschkin81
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2006 Posts: 4,786
      Hi Requ1em!

      I strongly recommend that you reread our bankroll management article as well as the short stack strategy articles. You should definitely start with the short stack strategy. $50 on NL10 with the big stack strategy are only 5 buy-ins. That's not enough.

      Best regards,
      Puschkin81
    • Requ1em
      Requ1em
      Basic
      Joined: 09.09.2007 Posts: 26
      Originally posted by howard182
      Whether you made money in other hands isn't the issue, it's whether you consistently maximised winnigns and minimised losses given the information available, and if you think you did that you need a reality check. We can all improve.
      I never said I can't improve any more.
      I don't really get your statement. I only really lost on these hands and on no other hands and I was favourite every time. I can't possibly do more than betting on my really good chances to get some money...
      If you're telling me what I played is so wrong that means I should have folded when I was favourite? I hope I don't get you wrong, please specify, because I think I don't understand you right.




      Thank you Yoghi, so you would recommend me what? Play the SSS strategy?



      @Puschkin81
      But what is the case if I really don't like the SSS strategy? Would you recommend me playing something I really mislike?
      (I have been playing Poker for over a year before but only with playmoney and I read articles and stuff before, so I don't want to "go one step back" and play a (sry) simple SSS strategy. Please don't tell me now I wasn't ready for the BSS... though I get your point with too less money for the BSS on NL10. But what do I got for a choice?).
      So in short - do you think it's only working when playing the SSS in the beginning? I hope not :/



      Thanks for your replys.

      Andy
    • debelinko
      debelinko
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.04.2007 Posts: 182
      What they are trying to say is that for BSS you need around 20 buy-ins to compensate for such bad luck streak that you suffered. You played it well, but got unlucky.
      Because you had only 5 buy-ins ready that meant you're busted.

      With your 50$ you should play the lowest limit possible (50/20=?).
    • Mugge88
      Mugge88
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.10.2006 Posts: 510
      50$ is even too little to play the BSS on NL5 if you hit a streak of bad luck..

      as for Requ1em: Can't tell you much except that you need to study a bit of BRM. One other thing I think I can tell from your hands is: Pot control, pot control, pot control! All your stated hands are one pair hands (except for one set vs set, which is truly unlucky), and you shouldn't play big pots with them voulantarily - Yes, you are often ahead, but one-pair hands are still very vulnerable, and you should try to keep the pot smaller (you could read this weaks excelent essay by puschkin for a little more insight on the subject).

      Best regards and good luck,
      Mugge
    • howard182
      howard182
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.10.2006 Posts: 416
      Pot control certainly is usually an issue for people who say that bad beats destroyed their roll (along with the normal bad bankroll management), can'tsay specifically what else is wrong with your game of course, you didn't post any actual hands.

      I absolutely refuse to believe that you got the money in good every time you were all in during your brief stay at NL10. To be blunt (my default mode, sorry), you're either a psychic or a liar and you'll benefit enormously from being honest with yourself rather than solely blaming the poker gods (not that they can't be bastards).
    • Puschkin81
      Puschkin81
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2006 Posts: 4,786
      Originally posted by Requ1em
      @Puschkin81
      But what is the case if I really don't like the SSS strategy? Would you recommend me playing something I really mislike?
      (I have been playing Poker for over a year before but only with playmoney and I read articles and stuff before, so I don't want to "go one step back" and play a (sry) simple SSS strategy. Please don't tell me now I wasn't ready for the BSS... though I get your point with too less money for the BSS on NL10. But what do I got for a choice?).
      So in short - do you think it's only working when playing the SSS in the beginning? I hope not :/
      Answer to your first two questions: yes! If you don't have the bankroll to play what you would like to play, you have to build up your bankroll first.
      You say you have been playing on playmoney tables already and don't want to go one step back. To switch from playmoney to real money is one step forward (at least) because it's a completely different game. And from being a fish to becoming a successful SSS player is another step forward meaning that you are making two steps forward (at least) when you become a successful SSS player. Of course it is work to improve your game and making one step after the other. But have you ever experienced in real life that money is donated to you (except from birthday presents?!) and that you always can do what you want and the money is flying into your pocket? I don't think so.
      What I want to say is: Play the SSS. Learn to read your opponents and the dynamics of the realmoney game as well as the No-Limit game. While you are improving these skills you are building up a bankroll which allows you to play the BSS in a few weeks. And don't forget to post some key hands from your sessions to get advice from other players and to find your mistakes.

      I hope you are back on track soon!

      Good luck at the tables!
      Puschkin81
    • Requ1em
      Requ1em
      Basic
      Joined: 09.09.2007 Posts: 26
      @Mugge88, they weren't all all-in hands, so the pot grew larger during the flop/turn/river and I would say the average pot size were about 5 Dollar, which actually isn't that much but enough if you only got 50.
      Furthermore I already replied to Puschkins article.

      @howard182
      Thanks for your "advice" and kind of insults. If I lose I'm a moron of course and did everything wrong and got pleeeenty of mistakes to work on... . Apart from that I'm certainly a psychic or a liar. Only stupid that exactly what I wrote there happened to me.

      @Puschkin
      Thank you Puschkin.

      Andy
    • blackstone1
      blackstone1
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.09.2007 Posts: 105
      yeh u definetly should play SSS not BSS :)
      u were also unlucky, I can tell you I lost 50% of my bankroll in 3 days playing for n hour or two with SSS at lowest level and I was unlucky as you were. (I was also frustrated about playing good hands and loosing) but that changed for me and I also went up now but im still not in + :)

      Personally I think you need even more bankroll than $50 for SSS so you dont get frustrated and blame yourself (in case this beats happen constantly).

      With a bigger bankroll Im sure you wouldnt mind those losses :) - you would say to yourself I had the best hand preflop, on flop i put the money in when i was ahead but i lost (sometimes i even shouted before look at this idiot) but now i just move on > with smaller bankroll or bankroll under pressure it definetly gets frustrating and you are wondering what you are doing wrong.

      Remember as fast you can go down you can also go up. The only difference is the profit made and so far i didnt make any yet altho i played over 40 hours.
      But im still hoping to make some (i dunno how much ill make maybe 1$+ by playing whole month maybe nothing maybe i ll go up $200 maybe ill go broke) we ll see.

      I think its wrong to expect making money every day, week or months even. But if you play good hands im sure you can score more than playing with bad hands. Stick to pokerstrategy articles m8, and try to even have more bankroll incase those sick unlucky beats happen again.
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Sad to hear that you lost your bankroll. 50$ shouldn´t be enough for playing NL 10 BSS, I think that even NL10 SSS isn´t very good, because if one big stack calls, then I have to call with my pocketpairs or high suited cards and often enough SSS gets stacked over and over again. Since I know which is SSS players starting hands, I would fold most of my good hands and re-raise him all-in with my premium hands. Luckily there are enough bad NL 10 players and they will probably pay your money back.

      If you consider re-load then maybe you should try FL. It is quite safe and you shouldn´t loose at FL 0,05/10 tables if you play tight. Although even there could be downswings but these aren´t so huge. If you make 55$, you can move up 0,10/0,20 and playing there first one, after two and so on, you shouldn´t have no problem clearing 100$ bonus and after that you could try NL 10 SSS or even BSS.
    • howard182
      howard182
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.10.2006 Posts: 416
      @howard182
      Thanks for your "advice" and kind of insults. If I lose I'm a moron of course and did everything wrong and got pleeeenty of mistakes to work on... . Apart from that I'm certainly a psychic or a liar. Only stupid that exactly what I wrote there happened to me.
      Never said you're a moron, everyone who posted in this thread, everyone playing high stakes, everyone who's been at a WSOP main event final table, everyone who plays poker could improve and every one of them should focus on doing so rather than bemoaning their misfortunes.

      I stand by the psychic or liar comment on getting the money in good every single time. Just isn't possible unless you fold everything but the nuts, which is hardly a winning strategy.
    • Mugge88
      Mugge88
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.10.2006 Posts: 510
      pot control is very important no matter if it's all-in situations or not.. I am not gonna give you alot of advise here, but I will really recomend you to read some about it..