Pulling a brick across a table with an elastic band

    • jbpatzer
      jbpatzer
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.11.2009 Posts: 6,950
      Here's an observation and a question about $3/$5 SnGs. My experience is that, when you get to the push or fold stage, the fish have a fairly tight (-EV) calling range, unless you push into them too often, when they suddenly decide to call with some really crappy hands. It's like pulling a brick across a table with an elastic band...it doesn't move for ages then, bang, it flies across the table and smacks you in the mouth. I had this last night on the bubble with pretty much even stacks of 10BB each in a $3 SnG on Pokerstars, when I pushed A9s and got called by KTs (he won and busted me). That's just moronic, and in the long run mainly benefits the two players not involved, but I guess he'd folded about four times and snapped.

      Is this a fair observation, and should I factor this into my decisions about whether to push? Can I really fold A9s here just because I think I'm likely to be called?

      jbpatzer
  • 10 replies
    • taavi1337
      taavi1337
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.05.2009 Posts: 2,920
      you want to be called by worse hands
    • kababmagic
      kababmagic
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.01.2009 Posts: 9
      taavi, you really don't want to get called at all in that situation....it is alot better in terms of your EV to have worse hands fold than get it in on the bubble in a 60/40 situation. Sure, in cash games you would love to see them call all day but in SNG the only people benefitting are the two others. @jb yer you are right it happens they decide to play back. I think all you can do is keep making the correct ICM moves. If you have an ICM trainer you might want to try a few situations where villain is likely to call with a wide range and see which hands are still profitable to push with
    • jbpatzer
      jbpatzer
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.11.2009 Posts: 6,950
      Exactly. And you're right, I could try an ICM trainer with a wider calling range in the big blind, but my point is that it's not clear when they will widen their range. It's very nonlinear, hence my analogy.
    • gedwashere91
      gedwashere91
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.07.2009 Posts: 2,387
      Spite calls are something you have to deal with. Carefully monitoring what you think your table image appears to be is critical in Push/Fold. Sacrificing some fairly marginal pushes by cutting out the bottom of our shoving range in order to avoid spite calls later is sometimes fairly +EV.
    • 8979687
      8979687
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.11.2008 Posts: 2,225
      Using a Hud to sort out who is a regular and who is just playing 1-2 tables lets you know
      who you can get away with doing what to. Also, sometimes the chat box can be a dead
      give away that a spite call is on the way.

      You can see things like keep playing bingo !@^#*@!^ Your going to pay.

      if you see this type of chat from more than one person then pay attention because they
      are aware that something isnt right and they want to stop the bad guy with a hero call.

      It could happen with just one but usually when I see 2 or more getting upset I pick my spots
      a little better than just steamroll them.
    • jbpatzer
      jbpatzer
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.11.2009 Posts: 6,950
      Thanks. That sounds like good advice to me.
    • ihufa
      ihufa
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.03.2008 Posts: 3,323
      over adjusting... standard fishline
    • jbpatzer
      jbpatzer
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.11.2009 Posts: 6,950
      Do you mean the suggestion is fishy, or that what I'm seeing is fishy?
    • gedwashere91
      gedwashere91
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.07.2009 Posts: 2,387
      Originally posted by ihufa
      over adjusting... standard fishline
      It's not over-adjusting if you start pushing a bit tighter from SB because you know BB calls you off light.
    • Unam
      Unam
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 17.08.2006 Posts: 8,999
      When you have no clue how or why they are going to call you with a stupid range just play your style. And don't think that in the long run only the other 2 players at teh bubble will win because of this. Cause these guys will not only start calling you with crap, they will also call your opponents with bad hands and then you are one of the winners.