MTT results masking poor poker?

    • Rhymenoceros
      Joined: 27.04.2010 Posts: 97
      Hi all

      I have recently come to the conclusion that I am not the "winning" poker player I thought I was.

      Before I joined this site I began an Excel spreadsheet to track my results because I could not be bothered spending the time or money with HEM or PT.

      I believe that I made the bulk of "profit" ( or what I believed to be profit) in Pub poker games where the opposition is, for the most part, soft. These results showed me to be in profit over a number of months throughout 2009.

      However I have recently refreshed my spreadsheet and started over since March 2010 and if it were not for winning an MTT during this period I would be - $54.96 instead of +$224.54.

      What I am trying to highlight is that I am struggling to determine whether I am a winning player.

      - what is the best way to track results both live and online?
      - Should I omit anomalous results in MTT's? This may lead me to believe I am a good player when In fact I am not.
      - What is a good sample size to base results on?

      I have already begun using PT3 and am playing $1.20 SNG's only now to see if this makes things clearer.

  • 8 replies
    • alenstrat
      Joined: 13.03.2009 Posts: 821
      Yeah, I've been asking myself that a lot too. I'd say counting your big MTT win is ok if you have a big sample size. I don't know how many tourneys that would be though.

      Determining how good you are on MTT's is tricky. Maybe a better indicator for MTT would be average position within field (ie if your average position in the MTTs you play is 500/5000 you're in the top 10%, you're better then 9 out of 10 players. I think that would mean that you're an excellent player. But you can have this average, and still not be very successful money wise (for example me :s_cry: ).

      I'm sure at the end of the day most will say that actual prize money won is the real barometer and I guess that's fair enough, because this is what this is about, even if it includes that stereotypical post you find here on the forums of newbies that had their super lucky day and hit big in one of his first tourneys (yes I'm jealous of them :s_evil: ) and all of a sudden they are "winning players" at least statistically.

      Lately I've been focusing much more on my results on cash tables and SNG's with smaller fields as a barometer of whether I'm any good, and I've sort of put big MTT's into a separate category with an asterisk *results could greatly vary with just one big win or lack of.
    • 8979687
      Joined: 11.11.2008 Posts: 2,225
      For tracking there is a site called check your bets.

      It's free and basic but better than nothing.
    • xmarukox
      Joined: 10.04.2010 Posts: 99
      I have considered that too...

      I agreed that ... if u can have a skillful n stable play in most Big MTT...that's a reflection of "skills"...:-P

      So as I, I am not a winning player yet...haha
    • Hahaownedlolz
      Joined: 24.04.2009 Posts: 1,755
      If when you started with poker you immediatly jumped to tournaments it would be hard to determine your a winning player. Luck is very important in tournaments, It's really all the difference there is between the nr 1 and the person who finished last. I'm not saying good players won't win alot more because they do. But one cash doesn't really say much either, you just need alot of luck to win one tournament.

      The best way to determine it is really to be very critical about how you play. Or let a coach review some MTT's you play

      Or You could also start playing Multi table sng's of 45-180 man, and see how you do in those. They play quite similar to tournaments imo.
    • MrPavlos
      Joined: 12.02.2009 Posts: 553
      Maybe u still havent learnt cash games good or u just aint quite a cash player.

      Over the last 2 years i am overall -3.4k in cash games in about 100k hands.
      However i am not broke thx to mtts+husngs.
    • Albeback
      Joined: 02.03.2009 Posts: 250
      I think that average finish position is not that important mainly because of the big differences between the number of players that start a tournament plus the difference of skill level between buyins and certain tournaments at the same buyin.
      It is also important to note that for some players it is very important to accumulate early or in the middle stages while others play very well with shorter stacks. So I think it depends a lot on your playing style and the strategy you adopt in different tournaments at different stages. I do believe that if you do play well in the specific situations that appear at any given time the money will get to reflect pretty well your skill level on a decent sample size (like a few hundred tournaments at least 1k even better).
      Also your ITM should be around 15-20% if you are playing well for some limit.
      I think it is best to analyze your game starting with specific hands when you have doubts and studying the concepts of the correct play in MTTs in different stages according to the style you play or want to.
    • crowes
      Joined: 19.09.2009 Posts: 78
      Well, I become a wining player when I switch from cash game to MTTs...while playing cash my only ,winings, was a rackeback :s_mad:
      I play NL50 on 8-9 tables and finishing every month with 2-3 BI +-
      Now I play only MTTs and in last year finished every month in +....big + :s_love:
    • JackxxRatt
      Joined: 18.07.2007 Posts: 119
      I would say you shouldn't mix all results together, ie dont include your MTT win with your SNG/Cash game stats, quite simply as they're different forms of poker. You could be a terrible cash game player but a decent tournament player. Separate the results.

      If you want some idea of where you're at in SNG's, try downloading the trial version of SNG Wizard and try the quizzes.