[NL2-NL10] Rush Poker Full House w/ pocket 2s against river reraise

    • revs90
      revs90
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.04.2010 Posts: 60
      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.02/$0.05 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)

      Known players:
      UTG2:
      $5.00
      MP1:
      $8.72
      MP2:
      $5.77
      MP3:
      $4.90
      CO:
      $2.32
      BU:
      $2.11
      SB (Hero):
      $4.87
      BB:
      $2.28
      UTG1:
      $8.50


      Preflop: Hero is SB with 2, 2.
      4 folds, MP3 raises to $0.15, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.13, BB folds.

      Flop: ($0.35) T, 2, T (2 players)
      Hero checks, MP3 checks.

      Turn: ($0.35) 8 (2 players)
      Hero checks, MP3 bets $0.20, Hero calls $0.20.

      River: ($0.75) 4 (2 players)
      Hero checks, MP3 bets $0.50, Hero raises to $1.00, MP3 raises to $2.00, Hero calls $1.00.

      Final Pot: $4.75.

      Results follow:

      Hero shows a full-house, twos full of tens(2c 2s).
      MP3 shows three of a kind, tens(Th Jh).

      Hero wins with a full-house, twos full of tens(2c 2s).

      Maybe I should have shoved the river, but the way the hand was played, I thought maybe 8s or 4s got there and made a bigger boat.
      I checked the flop because I put him on a few big cards and wanted to extract value from him not chase him away from the pot.
  • 8 replies
    • Shevtshenko
      Shevtshenko
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.12.2009 Posts: 4,087
      Don't slowplay while playing rush. It doesn't make sense. You lost value from two streets and you would have stacked him by playing your hand fast.
    • bradomurder
      bradomurder
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.10.2008 Posts: 1,329
      I think flop check (with the intention of c/r is good)

      as played bet turn, failing that, raise turn

      shove river.
    • revs90
      revs90
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.04.2010 Posts: 60
      I find slowplaying usually works fine on Rush. Why do you say it makes no sense?

      Why bet turn? The eight wasn't in his hand range.

      Thanks guys.
    • Shevtshenko
      Shevtshenko
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.12.2009 Posts: 4,087
      I've played my fair share of NL5 rush and it's filled with callingstations. 95% of villains would call down with 33 against your bets in that spot. More than 50% would call two streets with A-high. You just lose value with nuts in that spot especially vs. a Tx which is stacking off always.

      You need to bet the turn because you have to build the pot. You've got a big hand so you should try your best to play a big pot. Checking or calling won't build you a big pot.

      c/r flop is fine, because you rep roundabout nothing. As played shove river for value, since you basically have the nuts. You'll lose way too much value if you are scared on river that villain has a bigger boat. If he has, it's just a cooler and nobody could do nothing to prevent you loosing.
    • Mstlc
      Mstlc
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.03.2009 Posts: 4,676
      Originally posted by Shevtshenko
      I've played my fair share of NL5 rush and it's filled with callingstations. 95% of villains would call down with 33 against your bets in that spot. More than 50% would call two streets with A-high. You just lose value with nuts in that spot especially vs. a Tx which is stacking off always.

      You need to bet the turn because you have to build the pot. You've got a big hand so you should try your best to play a big pot. Checking or calling won't build you a big pot.

      c/r flop is fine, because you rep roundabout nothing. As played shove river for value, since you basically have the nuts. You'll lose way too much value if you are scared on river that villain has a bigger boat. If he has, it's just a cooler and nobody could do nothing to prevent you loosing.
      All of this pretty much...

      Checking the flop with the intention of check/raising is fine. Check/raising smallish (say x2.5 villain bet size or something) is perfect as lots of fishes use these kinda spots to make bluff min-raises.

      Ok let's assume you missed your check/raise on the flop. You have to lead out on the turn... you wanna build the pot, slowplaying longer just won't do it for you. If he folds, too bad, he probably wouldn't have payed you much more anyway... but the potential value you could've gained from someone bluffing on, maybe, 1 street can never ever ever outweight the value you're loosing when you fail to stack off Tx hands + you can probably get a turn and a river bet from hands like 99, 77, A8, K8. Those kind of hands...
    • EgertS
      EgertS
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.08.2009 Posts: 52
      Originally posted by revs90
      I find slowplaying usually works fine on Rush. Why do you say it makes no sense?

      Why bet turn? The eight wasn't in his hand range.

      Thanks guys.
      start building pot. if you don't do it on the flop, then you have to start doing that on the turn or you probably won't get the stack in on the river.

      on the river, get the stack in the middle.
    • revs90
      revs90
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.04.2010 Posts: 60
      I see.
      I think the biggest mistake in the hand was not shoving the river, that's just being paranoid.
    • MaestroOfZerg
      MaestroOfZerg
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 5,510
      Hi,


      As played I think good arguments have been made so I won't go into that further. I still think check/raising the flop is best against standard tags that love to fire one c-bet with all their air and then give up, since we usually can't get them to put in more money without a strong hand anyway. This isn't true for all players tho, some won't c-bet air, some are ready to put in a ton of money with nothing if you trigger them correctly.

      So I'll barge in to say that you can also get good results on those boards by just donking the flop, because it doesn't look like you have anything. Aggressive tags and fish alike will go ahead and bluff-raise a fair amount, getting into mental wars with themselves that will cost them a lot of money. Passive fish will call with a ton of hands they'd have checked behind with, sometimes they'll hit a pair on the turn and call down with it as well. If anybody has JJ+ or Tx they will valueraise and likely stack off anyway so it's not like we lose the advantages of check/raising as far as building the pot against hands we cooler is concerned.

      Usually when I get raised after donking I'll either 3-bet right there or just call and donk any turn, depending on how often I think villain is bluffing and how likely villain is to recognize I'm repping a monster. Like, aggro fish won't mind 4-bet bluffing over a 3-bet if they think you're screwing with them, while tags will usually be able to realize something is wrong when you take a bet/3bet line. So against tags it's usually better to get funky, bet/call the flop repping something 88 and then either check/shoving the turn or "blockbet"/calling it, depending how villain's abilities to continue bluffing with stuff like AK or to valuebet again QQ type hands. Again against Tx it doesn't matter, we're stacking those anyway.


      Hope it helps.