Spewy shoves / easy call?

    • pinnryder
      pinnryder
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.11.2009 Posts: 597
      I've seen this now pretty often:
      A player gets a bad beat and let's say he has about 4BB left. The very next hands he shoves and often I saw them doing it with ATC because they're like "fck this I don't care anymore".
      Now my question is: Do you tend to call them wider because they often don't really care anymore? Or do you just continue with your normal play and don't really pay much attention to these "plays"?
      Obviously the situation mostly applies when we are in late position or in the blinds. Also our stack is about 15-20BB and we're not on the bubble..
  • 6 replies
    • gedwashere91
      gedwashere91
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.07.2009 Posts: 2,387
      If you have very good reason to believe that he is pushing ATC a slightly looser call is OK. I know the exact spots your talking about, and I find it is good to call them fairly wide, because they very often do show up with total crap.
    • fun101rockets
      fun101rockets
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.06.2008 Posts: 1,162
      if u think his range his wide look at your equity vs his range and the pot odds, Remember u must have a decnt edge to factor in ICM.
    • gedwashere91
      gedwashere91
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.07.2009 Posts: 2,387
      Yeahh... use SnG wiz to get an idea of how much you can loosen up if he pushes super loose.
    • andreibalint
      andreibalint
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.04.2009 Posts: 872
      Remember u must have a decnt edge to factor in ICM.


      Please, just make the assumption i'm 5 years old and try to explain this "edge" thingy. How it works in ICM trainer (i put it to 0) and in SNG Wizard. :D


      Going on topic, pushing for 4BB is supposed to be very wide, doesn't matter who they are. Be very careful because:

      - you might call just to see someone with a similar stack to yours push over you so you have to fold most of the time (that's why reshoving is good, you put pressure on others, but that means you can't do that with any garbage);

      -you might be on the bubble and put in danger your position (losing half your stack for example);

      If you're BB and he's the only one involved, let's do some math: theres 1.5BB down and he pushes 4BB which means 5.5BB. You have to call 3BB for 5.5BB. Which is almost 2:1 which means any 2. So you have to call with "almost" any 2.
    • pinnryder
      pinnryder
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.11.2009 Posts: 597
      Like I wrote in my original post, this situation doesn't apply that much when we are on the bubble because we don't want to double up the shortie lightly and put ourself in a worse position.

      In the BB the situation becomes fairly easy I guess, obviously we can wider here than usual. But once there are players left to act behind us I would only consider coldcalling when I have a monster and the players behind me are shorties and therefore producing a bigger pot which they are more likely to go for as they are short themselfes. In all other cases I would decide to call I would raise to get the other players to fold.
    • lessthanthreee
      lessthanthreee
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.06.2009 Posts: 16,300
      you should always call depending on your opponents push range.

      if you think he is spew shoving with 4bb with a wide range then you have to call wider. You should call if it +$EV to call, dependent on the factors in the model that create a +EV call (your call equity being > your fold equity).

      Obviously specific situations will mean you still have to call relatively tight (eg. bubble spots). but always adjust your call ranges to your opponents. This is the fundamental of SnG logic and a skill which will take thousands and thousands of games to master.