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NL5 BSS: dunno what I'm doing wrong

    • UeYa
      Joined: 30.09.2009 Posts: 96
      Hi all, I write this post to ask your opinion.

      I'm kinda new at cash NL5; I play NLHE since August 2009 and I played mainly SNGs on; in october I received my starting capital and with occasional play (1/2 SNG per night due to lack of good connection) I was able to levelup from 1$ to 2$ SNGs.

      When I reached the 150$ limit and heard that cash game is supposed to be allowed in Italy I thought it was a good idea to start studying/playing cash on FT in order to gain some knowledge and possibly have an edge. A the moment I have about 15k hands played.

      I made my way from 150$ to 195$ on NL2 by playing a mix of BSS and SSS (wherever 30BB can be considered SSS) then finally moved up to NL5.
      I didn't do that much table selection honestly and was running fairly well (~30BB/session) then I said: "Oh well I'd better do some table selection and go chase some calling stations!"; so I downloaded TableScanTurbo and started table selecting by choosing tables based on high pot avg/hi VPIP/hi players per flop.

      Since then it started my swinging door meaning one day I win 3 buy-ins and the next two days I lose 2 buy-ins/day with total profit of -1buy-in.

      I review my session with Pt3 replayer and watch my stats (vp=8/15%, PFR ~10%, AF 3/4) and for me it seems like I'm playing well but most of the time I'm losing money and really don't know is it's related to leaks or just variance.

      Example I have some high VPIP at the table and some reg players who play JJ+, 9Ts and similar so my strategy is to 3bet with QQ+ and call20 with mid/low pairs for set value. the last 2 weeks if I hit a set then villain has a better set, if I hit set even 3betting them on flop/turn (e.g. 3x their raise) these call and hit the magic straight on the river; if I hit a fullhouse villain has a better fullhouse or (happened once) a quad.

      Now I want to understand how to this just a usual downswing or what? Is it a coincidence that this started when I started table-selecting?

      Pls advice cos I have no clue :|
  • 9 replies
    • Alan883
      Joined: 03.12.2008 Posts: 1,941
      If u play BSS FR then just play like Starting hand chart say.

      Don't raise just with QQ+ since u will become readable.

      Be aware of position and so on.

      After all when u say your set is always beaten with higher set it seem like you are tilting a little since u know that this is not true.

      Try to read basic and bronze articles again. NL5 is very fishy so i bet that with just general knowledge you will beat this limit easily.

      So this is my advice. I done that many times and it worked. Try to review articles try to understand what are u doing wrong if u are doing wrong.

      Here u will get best answer on question if this is just downswing or a leak.

      Best luck at the tables!!
    • UeYa
      Joined: 30.09.2009 Posts: 96
      Believe it or not but 3 days ago I started over...printed out the BSS starting hands chart and I'm strictly adhering to it.

      Why you say I'm tilting? I make an example:
      have 55 on cutoff, MP raises 3x and has more that 20x his raise, I call for set value, board is dry and he cbets, I reraise 3x his raise and he calls, I shoot another barrel on the turn (70%+ pot size) and he calls on the river check/bet again and he calls closing the magic straight/trips.
      I don't think I tilted but just bad luck and a good fisherman hunting the set to the river, do you agree?

      Well the above (or similar) happened something like 3/5 times in the last 2 weeks..just bad luck or...?
    • Alan883
      Joined: 03.12.2008 Posts: 1,941
      Those things are happening. I really dont care a a lot. If you loose with great hand you can say to yourself...oook next 9 times i am going to win hand like that.

      If you loose you flush with K versus flush with A etc....u cannot do anything here just review if your flush calls were OK for example.

      I just said u were tilt a little because u said that it happens to you all the time....when someone start with those talking usually this is a little sign of tilt:) )

      Best luck at the tables.
    • EmanuelC16
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,909
      You could also watch some coachings and ask about specific hands the coach plays. You really learn a lot there!

      Good luck!
    • UeYa
      Joined: 30.09.2009 Posts: 96
      I'd like your opinion on my stats; I know it's a really small sample but I can't play that much because I do it only 1/1,5 hours a day due to my QQ (daughter and wife).

      I filtered the hands by blind/players because I'm focusing more on FR NL5 BSS (some Rush is included).

      Here the sd/non sd winnings:

      And here the stats:

      What's your opinion? I don't understand very well the showdown/non showdown thingy, does that mean that I killed the hand before showdown and most likely had won more if seeing the river?
    • Wriggers
      Joined: 21.07.2009 Posts: 3,250
      The showdown and non-showdown thing is where you have won your money. Say if you're looking at your graph, you've won a lot more at a showdown that non-showdown (Which is where you fold before the hand is shown down, or when you win a pot by other players folding).

      I don't really have any advice for you because i'm still only a beginner and I couldn't assure any of my advice was actually correct :D
    • drdrab
      Joined: 11.06.2009 Posts: 37
      showdown is when players have to show cards i.e both in the pot after betting on the river has finished.

      non-showdown is any time cards are not obliged to be shown, i.e you fold or win the pot by making everyone else fold.

      non-showdown will usually be running in the minus because it is inevitable you will fold more hands than not.
    • Zeninski
      Joined: 24.05.2010 Posts: 1
      Hi there!

      I have also had a lot of issues passing the NL5 barrier, although I maintain a good handrange and good player reads, but my advice for you (which I actually use for myself also) is to limit your aggression frequency a bit. Yeah, I know that these limits are full of stupid, weak hand ranges, that are almost always being incorrectly played and pretty much obvious for more experienced players, but really, in this limit profit from steals, and c-bet catches shouldn't be your main aim. Im a big fan of the TAG play myself, but for those limits its best to do your value bets straight forward and not lose big parts of your stack while trying to overrun opponents @ the table.

      By seeing your stats (which are good btw) I see that you are doing quite good with limpers isolation and stealing from them, its good to continue with your aggression in those cases, but be careful with other raisers, don't maintain the same aggr against them, but concentrate on value play and steal of some c-bets when they are obvious and position/table image is good.

      Im also starting to think that 3bets and 4bets preflop on those levels aren't working very good, because they leave u in tuff decisions on flop, especially out of position when u decide to cbet and show strength. You should rather concentrate on trapping those opponents to cbet and steal from them on later streets, than showing your aggression first.

      So basically, make some test sessions, with less cbeting, less 3beting, just a bit more passive game, which can help you trap those donks when they decide to steal. And bet value value value :)

      Good luck bruv!
    • Tim64
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 8,028
      I may be generalising but I would advise you not to worry about non-showdown winnings until you get to much higher limits.

      If you bluff on the flop and then again on the turn and your opponent folds and you win the pot, your nonshowdown winnings goes up. But... opponents at this limit aren't generally bluffable - you're wasting your $. Just wait till you have a good hand and value bet all the way.

      Biggest mistake you can make is:
      1. bluff too much vs players who cannot fold their weak hands
      2. slowplay when you have a good hand to try and trap.