Ax suited

    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
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      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Why is Ax suited a hand good enough for limping from the late position? The only thing you can actually hit is either a top pair with a low kicker (not a strong hand against a lot of opponents (is it even worth calling against a lot of opponents?)) or a nut flush draw (which happens rather rarely).
  • 13 replies
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
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      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Axs can also be connected so you can make 2 pair, trips, straight, A-hi flush full house, quads, straight flush, royal flush. So in a multiway pot if you hit a decent hand from time to time you are more likely to get paid, although the cost to be in that hand was just 1bb.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
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      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      As you can with any other hand. I just don't think it is worth it, since you can hit something really good that rarely..
    • Tampaloeres81
      Tampaloeres81
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      Joined: 08.03.2009 Posts: 1,416
      Whenever you hit in a limped pot, you wont get payed off enough. Since mostly people limp with weak hands.

      When there are multple limpers in front of you, you can overlimp, but raising is proly better.
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
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      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      Limping? Fuck limping, raise it up!
      And it's quite kewl to play postflop w it. Let's say:
      UTG limps, fold, fold HERO holds A :heart: 5 :heart: hero raises 4 or 5 or woteva bb, everyone fold, UTG call.

      flop T :club: 3 :diamond: 6 :heart:

      UTG checks, HERO bets woteva, UTG calls.

      Now there are shit loads of turns that you'll be able to profitably barrel any :heart: gives you FD, any 2/4/7 gives you gutshot + you are very likely to have Ax as out as well, broadways are good cards to barrel most of the time too.

      When you pick additional equity on turn your barrel doesn't have to work all that often (depending on how much equity you pick up) and scarecards are good to barrel because well.. they are scarecards!

      It doesn't mean that you should always fire turn when turn is good to barrel overall but i'm just explaining why sooooted aces are kewl
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
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      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      Actually i forgot to mention that it also has quite good SD value and vs some villains you'll just check it down some % of the time and win the pot.
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
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      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Originally posted by Avatars91
      As you can with any other hand. I just don't think it is worth it, since you can hit something really good that rarely..
      Then don't play Axs. Don't play pocket pairs, because you rarely hit the set and even then your opponent can have a higher set,a straight, a flush, etc. Play only QQ+ in the blinds and shove PF.

      I agree with NightFrostaSS about raising with suited aces in late position. But if you want to limp them and only play when you hit, meaning you never bluff at the pot, it has more potential than 59o. Remember you hold an A, therefor someone else having AA is highly unlikely. Only you can make A-hi flush, because the A is not on the board. A pair of aces if more often than not the best hand in a limped pot, so if you hit your ace you just have to play cautious, go for pot control and you should win it. Watch some videos and attend some coachings to see how you can play suited aces profitably.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
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      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Then don't play Axs. Don't play pocket pairs, because you rarely hit the set and even then your opponent can have a higher set,a straight, a flush, etc. Play only QQ+ in the blinds and shove PF.


      Let's not exaggerate, shall we? Pocket pairs are awesome, so are suited connectors. Ax suited most of the time turns out to be a wasted 1bb for me. Now surely if that seems to be the case, I shouldn't even be asking about it, and just fold Axs most of the time, but I want to know, what I'm missing. Bluffing with Axs is only useful if my opponents are bluffable, which is hardly the case rather often on NL10, which is the limit I'm in. Getting a gutshot draw is not that great (I mean, is it?), Hitting another ace is worth something only against a few opponents, and even then only if they aren't too aggressive with their own hands. Now, I've been playing Axs only because the chart says so, and I'm mostly speculating on hitting that precious flush draw, but then again, I could do the same thing with any two suited cards with the disadvantage of not hitting the nut flash.. Just my newbie thoughts. Don't get offended by my views, I WANT to be convinced Axs are great (why would they be in the chart?), but thus far, I haven't been.
    • GunFlavoured
      GunFlavoured
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      Joined: 19.10.2008 Posts: 626
      I personally wouldn't open limp Axs but over limping is ok. As mentioned above you usually can get a bit of value if you hit your A since it is often the best hand. Other than that it is in the SHC because it is easier to play than 2 random suited cards since you know that you're drawing to the nut flush.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
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      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      I wouldn't open limp either. Late position = blind steal by default. Calling when there are a lot of limpers is rather wasteful, cuz you're speculating only on a set or a flush draw which happens very rarely. IMO.
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
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      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      Ugh, if there is no fold equity as you say (which isn't true in reality) then there are big implied odds and so playing such hand is still profitable then. And wtf @ hitting Ax isn't worth much? If it's not worth much it means they:

      A) won't call the turn with anything worse than turned better Ax (bluffable players)

      B) are so fit or fold they fold everything worse than two pair on flop

      In B case you'd make tons of money by just raising PF, cbeting flop and giving up if called in this case Axs is still awesome because you'll be able to check back the turn since you are IP and in case you outdraw them they'll either bet into you and you'll be able to raise em and most likely payed off or get a value bet.

      I've actually sweated few friends not so long ago who play those stakes and it seemed to be full of fit or fold multitabling nits who play their hands in most obvious ways possible. So i'd def advocate loosening up and playing some poker instead of waiting for nuts.
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
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      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      I was sarcastic in the opening of my last post. Sometimes I take it too far and people get offended. Sorry about that.

      Axs is a speculative hand, like a lot of hands. Pocket pairs that are not TT+ are barely playable postflop without a set especially OOP. IP you can play any 2 if you have the experience (not my case :f_biggrin: ). Just watch some videos and try to incorporate new things you see in your game. Try them at a lower limit if you are afraid of losing.

      Good luck at the tables!
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
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      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      No, of course I understand Axs is a great hand in terms of cbeting IP, but if you limped, which is the case most of the time, it's hard to win the pot postflop..
    • SiXAT
      SiXAT
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      Joined: 28.09.2008 Posts: 263
      i hate calling with it playing passively first in so i usually either riase or fold(CO, or BU usually).
      playiing in position with it when u raised is profitable: preflop u can pick up the blinds, or if the player calls the raise in the blind u can put him on range- tight payer usually pair or maybe suited connectors, or if u are loose or the opponent is passive AT, AJ, AQ KQ , so then u see the flop and decide whether the flop hit his range or not and decide weather to bluff.
      if u hit the A top pair its weak, but u can still value bet it if the player has a pair he might call a value bet on flop, or if u bluff the flop K37 and ur opponent calls with KQ and the turn hits A he will check it and u better check it too so u are more likeliky to get called on river, against some u will fire 2nd bullet.

      in a limped pot i usually play hit or fold, might bet flush draw on flop or check then bet turn if checked. bet fold the A.