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3 bet size? (NL5)

    • alenstrat
      Joined: 13.03.2009 Posts: 821
      I'm having some trouble in NL5 up to now. I'm not able to get value from my good hands (QQ+). Seems like 90% or more of the time people just fold or call to a 3 bet in NL5, unlike in NL2 where everyone would always at least call my 3 bets. I only got 4 bet once up to now, fortunantely by JJ (had QQ and won). I get the feeling that it seems like with a 3x 3 bet I'm only isolating myself against other premium hands, which would be the only ones to 4 bet me.

      Should I be scaling down my 3 bet size to 2x instead of 3x or even calling some hands?For example if I'm co or bu and don't have to worry that much about anyone else calling into the hand maybe I could even call?

      Another big loser so far for me has been AK, I'm losing a ton there because most of the 3 bets that did get called I was holding AK and I couldn't shake off a probably small-mid pair even with a pot size cbet on dry boards ie Qxx or Jxx or 10xx and had to give the hand up there - seems like the only way I could have gotten rid of these guys would have been a shove, seems like also like in NL2 opponents tenaciously hold on to mid or even small pocket pairs or when they hit mid or low card on the board (ie my biggest pot today was AQ hitting Q4x flop, opponent held on to pot size flop, turn and allin on the river with A4o). And of course when Axx or Kxx board came up villain always folded to any size bet, tried pot bets, 1/3 size flop value bet.

      Any suggestions?
  • 3 replies
    • cryoburn
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 322

      What site are you playing? Can you post stats?

      It's NL5 so I'm guessing 0.02/0.05 blinds. Is it fullring or shorthanded?
      By the way you're describing it it seems like FR and I'll assume it is.
      Looks like most of the players are very tight.

      The size of the 3B won't really matter because most villains won't act differently vs a 2.5x-3.5x 3B. At least that's my opinion and from what I've experienced. But of course there are some observant players out there sometimes that do note bet sizing.

      Don't try to bet AK trying to get an opponent to fold an underpair at these stakes, unless you know they'll fold (e.g. to a 2nd barrel).

      Try a different approach: balance your 3B with calls IP instead with hands like AJ-AK and 99-QQ, unless you don't want other players calling behind.

      Try also polarizing a bit your 3B range: narrow your 3B for value to QQ+ and AK and put in some marginal hands (only in LP) like suited connectors (56s+). And sometimes flat call that same 3B range IP.

      And keep betting for value. Bluffing at this limit is mostly -EV.

      Try this approach and see if it works out for you. Its just my thoughts on it.
    • alenstrat
      Joined: 13.03.2009 Posts: 821
      Great. Thanks. Such an informative reply! :f_eek:

      I like many of these ideas and will begin applying them.

      Is the calling with marginal hands part to make my play less predictable?

      I don't have stats, my elephant expired and I'm a few hundred points away from the license still.

      Actually I never really used stats up to now, I rely mainly on my notes, reads, gut. When I tried using stats I thought it was counterproductive, since I always 8-10 tabled NL2 - only doing 4-6 in NL5 for the moment - looking at everyones stats drove me crazy and I had enough stats to come to a conclusion on very few players because of the great amount of players in NL2.
    • SiXAT
      Joined: 28.09.2008 Posts: 263
      there is a very easy solution start 3beting with wider range of hands.
      I do it and i get called by many weaker hands, also: its NL5 peple are mostly fish there so a fish will many times call with weaker hand, and a regular play abc, or maybe if he is a loose reg he might 4bet bluff.