[NL2-NL10] AKo oop against unknwon

    • Heffron89
      Heffron89
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.01.2009 Posts: 813
      PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

      Hero (BB) ($5)
      UTG ($4.93)
      UTG+1 ($5.04)
      MP1 ($2.07)
      MP2 ($12.13)
      MP3 ($5.59)
      CO ($9.86)
      Button ($5.77)
      SB ($5)

      Preflop: Hero is BB with K, A
      UTG bets $0.20, 7 folds, Hero raises to $0.65, UTG calls $0.45

      Flop: ($1.32) 6, 5, 8 (2 players)
      Hero bets $1, UTG calls $1

      Turn: ($3.32) 9 (2 players)
      Hero checks, UTG bets $3.28 (All-In), Hero folds

      Total pot: $3.32 | Rake: $0.16

      villain unknown im oop dunno what to do here at all
  • 6 replies
    • LudiCoka
      LudiCoka
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.06.2009 Posts: 266
      Hi,

      Preflop:

      I guess raising AKo BB vs UTG can be fine if you are up against some
      lunatic calling station or some donk maniac in order to get it in preflop, otherwise with these players (in my experience on cake) you will either make some really bad players fold some crap they raised with or you will make some nit shove his KK or AA. So generally, I feel more comfortable flat calling here and then playing the flop, even out of position, better than doing that 3bet and then being in a tough spot after a 4bet or after a flat call when against unknown.

      Flop:

      6 5 8 with a flush draw is quite bad. You have made that 3bet preflop here though, so I do think c-betting is fine as you represent a high pair and can
      pick up the pot.

      [u]Turn[/U]:

      After being called in a 3bet pot on a 6 5 8 board with two diamonds and being
      out of position you are never good. You could likely be against a set, strong draw that is never folding... endless options. On top of that, turn comes 9 of diamonds so there is really nothing in his range now that you could make him fold and your AK is nothing but a bluff from flop onwards. So check - fold is the only option.

      On a side note, if you had AA or KK here, I would play it just like you played this AKo, 3betting preflop offcourse, c-betting the flop for value against JJ-99
      and draws, and check-folding 9d turn if called.
    • Heffron89
      Heffron89
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.01.2009 Posts: 813
      Thanks for a really good answer :) ! I thought that calling Ako OOp was bad play? but im not sure now, maybe i should just've flatt it and reavauluate on the flop thx
    • Oly0909
      Oly0909
      Silver
      Joined: 08.06.2008 Posts: 843
      I would play it exactly the same. Only, I would bet 2/3 of pot instead of 3/4 on flop. I don't think you have to build the pot, or to protect something, because you don't have anything to protect, and if he is not folding to 2/3 of pot bet he is not folding to 3/4 of pot bet as well.
    • Oly0909
      Oly0909
      Silver
      Joined: 08.06.2008 Posts: 843
      @ LudiCoka
      I have to disagree with you about preflop play. I think that with AK it's much better to 3bet preflop then to play flop out of position because in many cases original raiser will fold on 3bet, and it's very likely he will fold on your continuation bet on flop, and sometimes you'll even hit :-)

      And about that example, if I had AA or KK here, I would pot the flop because it's very, very draw heavy bord, and ship it in on turn.

      I would really like to see judges opinion on this. I think all of us could learn a lot here.
    • Mstlc
      Mstlc
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.03.2009 Posts: 4,676
      Originally posted by LudiCoka
      Hi,

      Preflop:

      I guess raising AKo BB vs UTG can be fine if you are up against some
      lunatic calling station or some donk maniac in order to get it in preflop, otherwise with these players (in my experience on cake) you will either make some really bad players fold some crap they raised with or you will make some nit shove his KK or AA. So generally, I feel more comfortable flat calling here and then playing the flop, even out of position, better than doing that 3bet and then being in a tough spot after a 4bet or after a flat call when against unknown.

      Flop:

      6 5 8 with a flush draw is quite bad. You have made that 3bet preflop here though, so I do think c-betting is fine as you represent a high pair and can
      pick up the pot.

      Turn:

      After being called in a 3bet pot on a 6 5 8 board with two diamonds and being
      out of position you are never good. You could likely be against a set, strong draw that is never folding... endless options. On top of that, turn comes 9 of diamonds so there is really nothing in his range now that you could make him fold and your AK is nothing but a bluff from flop onwards. So check - fold is the only option.

      On a side note, if you had AA or KK here, I would play it just like you played this AKo, 3betting preflop offcourse, c-betting the flop for value against JJ-99
      and draws, and check-folding 9d turn if called.
      All of this, except for the pre-flop part. AKo is a definite 3bet pre-flop on these stakes regardless of the position. People can't let go of dominated aces very often, sometimes they'll call with KQ etc...
    • MaestroOfZerg
      MaestroOfZerg
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 5,510
      Hi,


      Against an unknown I'll usually just 3-bet/fold that preflop. We're playing poker mostly because of the vast majority of bad players out there especially at microstakes, we'd miss value by making the assumption that the average opponent won't ever call with dominated hands, people surely will. They won't, however, 4-bet and go broke with hands we're in good shape against UTGvsBB pretty much regardless of who they are unless they're batshit insane, so I'm not at all moved by the possibility of having to pitch my AK against a 4-bet. We'll still make plenty of money against his 3-bet calling range for the play to be hugely +ev.

      Originally posted by Oly0909
      I would play it exactly the same. Only, I would bet 2/3 of pot instead of 3/4 on flop. I don't think you have to build the pot, or to protect something, because you don't have anything to protect, and if he is not folding to 2/3 of pot bet he is not folding to 3/4 of pot bet as well.
      This for the flop, except I'd likely bet even less, like 3/5. We're just trying to make him fold his whiffed broadway hands that we assumed he'd call with preflop so that he won't be able to screw with us like he possibly would if we were to let go of initiative. He won't ever fold any kind of pair so just bet whatever you think is enough to make him fold overcards type hands.

      Turn card is like the worst card ever, it smashes his range right in the face, we're so dead it's not even funny :p Don't talk yourself into trying to make him fold stuff like two pairs or even JJ just because there is a 4-straight and flushdraws got there, that's a somewhat small part of his range and half the people at nl5 won't fold them anyway. When he jams we have no reason to believe he's capable of ever shoving worse into us like that, it's a pretty easy fold.


      Hope it helps.