[NL2-NL10] nl10 SH - AQs, TP in position, very wet board

    • BattleHunter
      BattleHunter
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 12.11.2009 Posts: 874
      Cake Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Cake-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

      Hero (UTG) ($12.80)
      MP ($10)
      CO ($3.85)
      Button ($23.59)
      SB ($4.03)
      BB ($17.92)

      Preflop: Hero is UTG with A, Q
      Hero bets $0.40, 4 folds, BB calls $0.30

      Flop: ($0.85) A, 5, 4 (2 players)
      BB checks, Hero bets $0.60, BB calls $0.60

      Turn: ($2.05) 6 (2 players)
      BB checks, Hero bets $1.40, BB calls $1.40

      River: ($4.85) J (2 players)
      BB bets $4.85, Hero???

      Total pot: $4.85 | Rake: $0.32

      Ok, so main question is what to do on the turn. Is b/f a good plan on that turn? Or should I check behind and call any non-club river?

      Sorry but can't provide much info about villain, darn cake deleting names :/
  • 5 replies
    • LudiCoka
      LudiCoka
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.06.2009 Posts: 266
      Hi,

      as you said it yourself, you should have checked behind turn and then call a reasonable river bet.

      As played, I would have folded river. His line looks like a flush draw hit and
      calling a pot sized river bet in that case with just a top pair is at least
      questionable. To add a comment, I don't think there is much sense in betting
      turn, if he has a worse hand that pays you off, that third club
      scares him and your aggression makes him fold. Also, you are getting yourself
      in much trouble against made flushes. Situations like this are perfect for that
      check turn - call river pot control line.
    • BattleHunter
      BattleHunter
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 12.11.2009 Posts: 874
      Well I did fold on the river, but about the turn I though there is still much that calls and I have it beat, and I don't believe ppl on nl10 can turn made-ish hands to a bluff. The range I'm thinking is like:

      67s - all 3 combos don't have a flush
      34s - less likely
      78s - not very likely either, as I don't think he would call flop with just a gutshot, but on the micros everything is possible
      AX - especially ones that have a strong-ish club. He probably doesn't have AK, but AQ, AJ and AT with a club or even without are very possible.
      Big-ish pockets are very likely as well, especially 77-JJ

      That was my logic on the turn, and against such a range I have more than 60% equity so I believe I'm betting for value and protection. With my logic that they don't bluff the river, I can expect pretty much the same money lost if I check behind turn and call a pot bet on the river (actually even a bit more as he would obviously pot it), but on the same time I won't get any more value on the river.
    • LudiCoka
      LudiCoka
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.06.2009 Posts: 266
      All that you wrote is exactly the reason why you would want to control the pot
      and get to showdown. By raising you make weaker hands fold and pay off stronger hands. By checking behind you open the doors for a bluff try and
      you avoid possible check-raise bluff on turn that you would have to fold to.
      Also, you probably lose less money on calling river bet then betting yourself,
      river bets you would call are smaller or at worst equal to than what you raised on turn. Any other size, you can comfortably fold, or if you feel strong about
      your opponent bluffing, call and make a note. I think you can find much better
      spots for value betting turn than this.

      EDIT: I apologize, I misread something and didn't realize your question
      emphasized river play. Well, as I stated above, unless you feel really comfortable
      about your opponent pot betting hands weaker than yours on river like that
      (or bluffing) you should fold. Unless I have some really serious read he would
      do that, I fold this instantly. Even if you did make a "bad fold" this time, what
      percentage of time do you actually expect to see money go your way when
      you call it out in a situation like this? I would say not nearly enough to make
      a call profitable play.
    • Mstlc
      Mstlc
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.03.2009 Posts: 4,676
      C-bet bigger ($0.70).
      Bet/fold the turn.
      Check river behind or fold vs a river donkbet.

      You played the hand well imo. You need to barrel the turn imo as you don't want a 4th to hit the board and there's still value to be gotten from worse aces, especially Ax T+ will have a hard time folding.

      I mean checking the turn with the plan of calling of a river bet on any non river is just bad. Simply because you'll lose another bet against a made flush anyway... then why would you not bet the turn?
    • MaestroOfZerg
      MaestroOfZerg
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 5,510
      Hi,

      Originally posted by Mstlc
      C-bet bigger ($0.70).
      Bet/fold the turn.
      Check river behind or fold vs a river donkbet.

      You played the hand well imo. You need to barrel the turn imo as you don't want a 4th to hit the board and there's still value to be gotten from worse aces, especially Ax T+ will have a hard time folding.

      I mean checking the turn with the plan of calling of a river bet on any non river is just bad. Simply because you'll lose another bet against a made flush anyway... then why would you not bet the turn?
      This. I doubt he's folding Ax to a 2nd bet too often so we'll get more value anyway. Alternate lines where you check behind the turn are possible, but usually it'll be with the plan of folding to a big river donk bet and valuebetting when checked to again, now more confident that he doesn't have the flush.

      Pot control is usually a misapplied concept especially against people you don't think bluff too often. We're never worried about getting blown off the worst hand, if we get raised on the turn by a guy that never bluffs it just means we're beat and we get to fold with a smile, we shouldn't pass up the opportunity to make money from worse hands than our in fear of that.

      When you start getting into spots where you risk getting blown off the best hand by people capable of check/raising the turn with draws or something, especially when deep, those are usually the people that can actually bluff the river when you check back the turn, so then it makes sense to take those check back turn / call river lines.


      Hope it helps.