[NL20-NL50] NL£20 - vbet or check behind turn w/ Nuts

    • nibbana
      nibbana
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.12.2009 Posts: 1,186
      Live home game. £0.1/0.2 blinds. Villain is relatively inexperienced and with little history I don't know how to read his donk on the turn. PreFlop I guess he's 88-22, Axs, AT+, KQ

      UTG1
      UTG2
      CO
      BU (~£30.00)
      SB (~£23.00)
      BB Hero (~£13.00)


      Preflop: Hero is BB with J, J
      [color:#666666]3 folds,[/color] [color:#CC3333]BU Raises to £0.40[/color], SB Calls, [color:#CC3333]Hero Raises to £2.00[/color], [COLOR:#666666]BU Folds[/COLOR], SB Calls

      Flop: (£4.40) J, 7, 2 [color:#009B00](2 players)[/color]
      [color:#CC3333]SB Bets £2.00[/color], [color:#CC3333]Hero Raises to £4.00[/color], SB Calls

      Turn: (£12.40) 7 [color:#009B00](2 players)[/color]
      SB Checks, [color:#CC3333]Hero ??[/color]

      The initial plan with the flop minraise was to shove the turn but once I make my hand I don't know how best to continue
  • 7 replies
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      since you have only 65bb and you have 5 left, then I would shove turn
      He would c/c there draws and any pair
    • i5bet72o
      i5bet72o
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.06.2010 Posts: 1,615
      Do u think he would bluff shove the river?
      If not: ship turn
      If so: check turn, ship river
    • nibbana
      nibbana
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.12.2009 Posts: 1,186
      Originally posted by i5bet72o
      Do u think he would bluff shove the river?
      If not: ship turn
      If so: check turn, ship river
      I really didn't know how to put him on a hand, I find it really hard to read him as I don't think it even runs through his head that I have the initiative on the flop. Given this I checked back the turn - and he bluff shoved the river with A8s and a busted flush.

      So I played it right for this particular hand, but is the more general answer to shove the turn as I'm still getting called by a hand that's drawing dead or to check back the turn to allow worse hands to catch up ?
    • Gabinr1
      Gabinr1
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.04.2009 Posts: 7,755
      Easy push on the Turn. You have the (relative)nuts and only 1/2 potsize bet left.
    • Gabinr1
      Gabinr1
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.04.2009 Posts: 7,755
      You could also slowplay and push river if he checks, but if you check behind T the danger is that if he doesn't hit his draw he will not pay you. Also, a check behind is good if you know villain is aggressive enough to make a bluff bet on the River if he doesn't hit, or with a dominated hand.

      But with the stack sizes a bluff from villain it's improbable. But more probable he will call any good marginal hand and you could give him a chance to get that.
    • N0pr3s3n7
      N0pr3s3n7
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 14.05.2009 Posts: 1,274
      I'd say the following thing which has I think in most cases the best result:

      (ONLY AT THESE LIMITS VERSUS DONKS!like in your case)

      since he donks the flop he would be likely to have the range you put him on but after he call your raise he is going at:

      1.Overpairs + flush draw
      2.A set he want's to slowplay because it would look too strong to donk and ship it on the flop
      3.Some gutshots.

      In case 2 you never lose any EV$ because the money are always going in no matter of turn or river at all.

      It's how to get value from the other 2 kind of hands:
      I clearly suggest:

      At turn bet something super poor like 1/2 of you remanining stack (12.45 pot you bet 2.5 or 3 of your 5$ remaining stack for example)
      With this you achieve:
      He calls you 99% of the time no matter what hand he got,because if you check behind and he don't hit at river you are never getting more money.
      Also a shove isn't much likely to be called by a gut shot or a flushdraw , because no matter how good is he,he might say "well another 7 got there he might be full house or have a seven so i just have less outs and i'm not sure if they are clean".

      If he has already a made hand no way he folds to whatever you do just think about getting more value from all other kind of hands.

      Also something from psychological point:
      When you bet smallish,99% of the people on low limits say well okey it's small bet i call with everything and on the river it's again the same , he called you down the turn and he is very likely to call you down on the river too.
      But when these opponents face a all in , they think : LOL this is all in he is really strong.

      I have found out this way of thinking is very widely spread in people in limits until NL25 so you can make out a profit of it.
    • nibbana
      nibbana
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.12.2009 Posts: 1,186
      Thanks for all of your comments, insightful and helpful. One thing I have to pull you all up on though...

      Originally posted by Kaitz20
      you have 5 left
      Originally posted by Gabinr1
      You have... ...only 1/2 potsize bet left.
      Originally posted by N0pr3s3n7
      12.45 pot you bet 2.5 or 3 of your 5$ remaining stack
      I have £7 left at the turn... 13 - 2 - 4 !! Still it makes sense to shove the turn for me or at least bet something to get some value from the draws

      Thanks Again