[NL20-NL50] TPTK vs minraise

    • MathhNes
      MathhNes
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.08.2009 Posts: 953
      $0.20/$0.40 No Limit Holdem
      Prima
      5 Players
      Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

      Stacks:
      UTG BirchyTheLad ($40.60)
      CO AHAHAHAHA ($38.20)
      BTN Hero ($40)
      SB SUxxXxx ($43.43)
      BB marsh87 ($77.42)

      Pre-Flop: ($0.60, 5 players) Hero is BTN A:club: K:heart:
      2 folds, Hero raises to $1.20, 1 fold, marsh87 calls $1.20

      Flop: K:spade: 4:spade: 2:club: ($2.60, 2 players)
      marsh87 checks, Hero bets $2, marsh87 raises to $4, Hero raises to $10.80, marsh87 calls $10.80

      Turn: 5:heart: ($26.20, 2 players)
      marsh87 bets $37.60

      Villain plays 36/21/0 VPIP / PFR / 3B
      1.7/25/(4/8)/57 Agg fac/FoldTocbet/raise cbet/ Hands

      My main concern is what is the best play on the flop against a guy like this? What shall i do if i just call the flop what will the plan be? Which is better, 3betting or calling?
  • 9 replies
    • N0pr3s3n7
      N0pr3s3n7
      Coach
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      Joined: 14.05.2009 Posts: 1,275
      If you decide just to call his raise you should be all in on turn, or call turn , call any river.If we assume he is bluffing us and you already decided that if you reraise him as you did he would fold his bluff (or might just go all in but since he just call i think he didn't had bluff ?) .
    • MathhNes
      MathhNes
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.08.2009 Posts: 953
      That's right but what play on the flop has the highest EV? 3betting or calling?
    • N0pr3s3n7
      N0pr3s3n7
      Coach
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      Joined: 14.05.2009 Posts: 1,275
      I already answered that question i think :P

      Since you decide he has bluff he will continue his bluff always , that means if you 3 bet he fold and you don't win anything , if you just call (already decided that he bluffs <- this is important so that you call any 2 cards that come , unless some great suckout comes like 4 spades board or something like this,I suggest you push turn if another spade come, at your case it's safe card) he will 100% bluff turn or river and you get the highest EV$ there.

      So the best play is just to cold call all streets since when you 3bet you isolate yourself only versus hands that are maybe better ( so 3bet would be placed if you think that he only 4bet with set so you can fold , in all other cases if you decide to play call/call/call is best line i can think of)
    • MathhNes
      MathhNes
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.08.2009 Posts: 953
      But i think a guy like this may even c/minraise worse hand than mine like a KQ/KJ kinda hand. But maybe im wrong
    • N0pr3s3n7
      N0pr3s3n7
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 14.05.2009 Posts: 1,275
      Originally posted by MathhNes
      But i think a guy like this may even c/minraise worse hand than mine like a KQ/KJ kinda hand. But maybe im wrong
      I doubt he is doing this but he might be ( just 4/8 raises on cbets but 57 hands so you can make a conclusion on this in my opinion).But if he still raises you do you think 3 betting is more profitable ??? he will anyway play his KQ,KJ hand or you are afraid of J / Q turn/river ? he is anyway continuing with the drawing hand so i don't think there will be difference if you get it all in on flop or turn/river.And if you 3bet he will 100% fold his KQ , KJ hands and you won't get more value from them.
    • letmewinplz8
      letmewinplz8
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      Joined: 15.05.2010 Posts: 439
      Sorry for hijack but can we not consider checking back the flop against this type of player who is likely to (semi)bluffraise this kind of flop very often and then catch his bluffs on the turn and river?

      Or maybe with TPTK we should bet for value and call down his raises if he is raising cbet a lot. If we had TP with a weak or no kicker can we check it back though?
    • N0pr3s3n7
      N0pr3s3n7
      Coach
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      Joined: 14.05.2009 Posts: 1,275
      Originally posted by letmewinplz8
      Sorry for hijack but can we not consider checking back the flop against this type of player who is likely to (semi)bluffraise this kind of flop very often and then catch his bluffs on the turn and river?

      Or maybe with TPTK we should bet for value and call down his raises if he is raising cbet a lot. If we had TP with a weak or no kicker can we check it back though?
      I'd say you can only check back if you want to do somehow pot control because if you go like this hand happened you might say "well i'm risking my hole stack and i don't know where am I" .If your thoughts are the same you will get the probably the bluff he made.Once you check your hand would look like something like QQ,JJ,weak K or maybe flushdraw or some straightdraws,so he will most likely blow the pot with POT size bets, this is the other problem it's highly important that you decide wether he will bluff you or not because if he does he will be betting POT size bets in all three streets and it's hard to call if you come up on a game of guessing , and you don't want to do that so u get tough decisions later streets, i suggest only checking behind flushdraws and straightdraws because you don't want to play big pots before you hit and if he raises as he did it becomes though.
    • Gabinr1
      Gabinr1
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      Joined: 05.04.2009 Posts: 7,755
      I think your raise on the Flop is good, protects against flushdraws who might want some deception and initiative.

      The problem is that a fish would play the same with a set.


      I think flush-draws will not shove on the Turn. The fish doesn't want to scare you with an all in on the flop, so he donk shoves the Turn. I think you're beat here most of the times. I would just fold Turn.
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      don´t really think 36/21 is fish, but I think he would also c/min-raise there with Kx hands, so 3-betting flop and then getting all-in is not bad idea on that board
      You can also b/c and then call him down
      As played: call his turn shove, it is very often flushdraw or Kx that wants to bluff you out