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[NL2-NL10] Folding KK preflop vs an all-in

    • hmogotvm
      Joined: 15.07.2009 Posts: 7
      Today I've been given KK vs AA preflop twice... in one day. It's quite unnerving, I both times I went all-in preflop and lost all profits of wonderful day of diligent playing in those two pots. First one cost me 1$, second over 3$.

      Question, therefore, if I'm sitting very deep stacked, should I be folding if faced with an all-in? Now other threads say it depends on the stats -- right, if the range is very wide, calling with KK would make sense, sometimes I'd see AKs/o, QQ, maybe even JJ if opponent's real crazy, and be good against those, and only sometimes, rarely, AA. I can't remember my opponent in my 1$ fiasco, but in 3$ he was unknown. I had no stats. Here...:

      Hand converted with online hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.01/$0.02 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)

      Known players:
      MP3 (Hero):

      Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K, K.
      Hero posts deadblind, 2 folds, MP1 raises to $0.08, MP2 folds, Hero raises to $0.24, 4 folds, MP1 raises to $3.12, Hero calls $2.88.

      Flop: ($6.27) J, 5, 4 (2 players)

      Turn: ($6.27) T (2 players)

      River: ($6.27) 9 (2 players)

      Final Pot: $6.27.

      Results follow:

      MP1 shows a pair of aces(A A).
      Hero shows a pair of kings(K K).

      MP1 wins with a pair of aces(A A).

      It hurts me greatly. Was my play a mistake?
  • 2 replies
    • letmewinplz8
      Joined: 15.05.2010 Posts: 439
      As much as it hurts to fold preflop I think I would fold without any kind of reads - too often is this random spaz all in AA imo. But then again any player shoving 150BB into a 12BB 3bet is no good anyway so then again you can justifty it this way.

      The way I see it though is that I'm seeing QQ at best and having only invested 12BB Id rather just fold - if I had invested more its a snapcall.

      Edit: Actually no, this was somewhat tainted with my experience with KK during my sessions in the day. Go broke :P
    • MaestroOfZerg
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 5,510

      This isn't really something you can talk other people through without reads. We all know what the deal is, depending on villain sometimes we're way ahead and sometimes we're way behind. Our goal is just to be right more often than we're wrong. This isn't really a matter of 100bb or 250bb, most players capable of simply shoving in 100bb over a 12bb reraise with whatever usually don't care all that much about being deep, unless they're regs with that 4-bet-shoving mentality.

      I can't really explain how I do it, sometimes I just feel like calling, sometimes I make unbelievably tight folds most people would likely berate me for. This is something you likely need to learn the hard way, trust your guts and go with that, because if you can't it will be very hard for you to keep on playing anyway.

      There is certainly something to be said for avoiding those ultra high variance flips when you're unsure, especially if you always feel like crap when you end up being wrong, as it will simply impair your game and make you depressed in general. The problem is, if you start passing up on those spots routinely you'll end up erring on the side of folding when in doubt too much and start playing weak/scared overall, which is just about the worst that can happen for your development as a player. Since you won't see villain's hand when you fold, you can never be proven wrong in folding, which feels like you're always right, but that obviously isn't true.

      Hope it helps.