Do you think that average players are easier to read than donks?

    • blackops888
      blackops888
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.04.2010 Posts: 502
      I've always had a strong feeling about it, until I was reading one of Sklansky's Theory of Poker final chapters today. He says that "a bunch of incompetent players" is HARDER to read than average-to-good players. He also says the obvious, i.e, that tough players are harder to read than average-to-good players. That's something I live with when playing NL2.

      Also, I'm a huge fan of hasenbraten's session reviews. I find them inspiring and always watch one of them before a long session, just to get more information and some perception before entering the game. I notice that those players he finds on NL50 and above are quite consistent. They have some kind of logic behind their actions, even when they're complete fish. They are aware of pot odds, have some kind of opening standards, so on. Having some logic, even the worst of them are not stupid, and therefore, more readable.

      This definetly DOESN'T happen on NL2 SH. It's just chaos. People limping with AA and AK, calling UTG raises with 48 suited, etc. Of course they lose a lot by playing like this, but they also get lucky sometimes. Anyway, they are really hard to have a read on and I have to rely entirely on my Poker Edge HUD to take action most of the time.

      Am I the only one who feels like that? Most of my losses on NL2 come from moments in which I have the best hand but somebody gets lucky by the river and makes something stronger. :f_eek:
  • 19 replies
    • Skyscrapers
      Skyscrapers
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.02.2010 Posts: 104
      It's harder to read players that don't have strategy, but it's more fun trying to :s_love:
    • blackops888
      blackops888
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.04.2010 Posts: 502
      Maybe things get easier on higher limits??? I mean NL10+?

      I really don't know. Sometimes I think that my knowledge on strategy is just worthless on NL2. When I play NL2, I can even limp with strong hands, hoping to hit something on the flop. People are so clueless that they are way too loose if they hit anything on the flop, so I can be paid when hitting top pair, two pair or trips, for example. But that's guessing game. C-betting is almost always -EV, so... I keep trying the luck on the flop.
    • Muscamatei
      Muscamatei
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      Joined: 18.10.2009 Posts: 4
      He will certainly win a WSOP bracelet in his career.
      He will need tons of luck to achieve this, this year
      Good luck Durrr!
    • Hahaownedlolz
      Hahaownedlolz
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.04.2009 Posts: 1,755
      I know.. i play alot of freerolls with a leaderboard so i know what you mean.. Those fish can really mindfuck you with their retarded plays. And the problem gets even worse cause some players are still somewhat decent..


      I think it can actually really hurt your progress.. Because if you try to think logically you will get slapped in the face by their retarded plays.. And then just start playing very straight forward and then you could get abused by the semi-decent ones.

      But it's still no excuse to move up.. But i think if you deposit and start at like NL25 or something that might really be alot better then grinding it up..
    • Wurble
      Wurble
      Silver
      Joined: 04.04.2009 Posts: 456
      In answer to the original question, yeah average players who have some clue are easier to read than your average any two donk but your edge against mr average any two is so much bigger and therefore you will profit so much more from them.

      Who cares if they call your aces with 62o... Your edge against them is so much bigger than mr set hunting reg who's only gonna bet if he has you beat.
    • redskwerl
      redskwerl
      Black
      Joined: 03.03.2008 Posts: 3,802
      a large part of what makes a donk a donk is that they're easy to read
    • bradomurder
      bradomurder
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.10.2008 Posts: 1,329
      Of course completely crazy donks are harder to read, but who cares if you didn't put them on bottom pair when they call your 3 barrels, you've got their stack.

      you think NL2 is bad try playing at a casino. at least you can read their, can read their, yes you can re-ead their po-oker face
    • blackops888
      blackops888
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.04.2010 Posts: 502
      Yrah, maybe when I manage to get into a casino. They are totally ilegal here in Brazil, as well as slot machines and ANY kind of gamble apart from official lottery.

      But yes... I'll try when I get the chance!
    • chenny8888
      chenny8888
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      Joined: 03.10.2007 Posts: 19,324
      i tend to agree somewhat with OP but if someone is playing 40/0 they are STILL going to lose more money on average than the tight/passive nit-rock playing 9/6.
    • blackops888
      blackops888
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.04.2010 Posts: 502
      Originally posted by chenny8888
      i tend to agree somewhat with OP but if someone is playing 40/0 they are STILL going to lose more money on average than the tight/passive nit-rock playing 9/6.
      That's a fact. They are still going to lose much money, but they are also still hard to read. I've been lucky for using Poker Edge, once I can have some 5k hands from any player I find since the first time I see them. This really gives an edge against donks. If I were to datamine them, things could be worse.
    • Schnitzelfisch
      Schnitzelfisch
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 4,952
      Originally posted by blackops888
      Originally posted by chenny8888
      i tend to agree somewhat with OP but if someone is playing 40/0 they are STILL going to lose more money on average than the tight/passive nit-rock playing 9/6.
      That's a fact. They are still going to lose much money, but they are also still hard to read. I've been lucky for using Poker Edge, once I can have some 5k hands from any player I find since the first time I see them. This really gives an edge against donks. If I were to datamine them, things could be worse.
      Hello!

      I'm not sure which poker network you play on, but at some major networks, poker edge is a prohibited program. Make sure you aren't playing at one of them as you could get banned ;) .

      Best regards,

      Primzi
    • blackops888
      blackops888
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      Joined: 25.04.2010 Posts: 502
      Hum! Nice to know. I'll look for the rules. thx!
    • randomdonk
      randomdonk
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      Joined: 02.08.2009 Posts: 1,984
      the average player IS a donk
    • Fongie
      Fongie
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 4,978
      Originally posted by randomdonk
      the random player IS a donk
      hmm :f_grin:
    • ihufa
      ihufa
      Gold
      Joined: 18.03.2008 Posts: 3,323
      Originally posted by chenny8888
      i tend to agree somewhat with OP but if someone is playing 40/0 they are STILL going to lose more money on average than the tight/passive nit-rock playing 9/6.
      ofcourse you do... you have the same last name
    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      Originally posted by Primzi
      Originally posted by blackops888
      Originally posted by chenny8888
      i tend to agree somewhat with OP but if someone is playing 40/0 they are STILL going to lose more money on average than the tight/passive nit-rock playing 9/6.
      That's a fact. They are still going to lose much money, but they are also still hard to read. I've been lucky for using Poker Edge, once I can have some 5k hands from any player I find since the first time I see them. This really gives an edge against donks. If I were to datamine them, things could be worse.
      Hello!

      I'm not sure which poker network you play on, but at some major networks, poker edge is a prohibited program. Make sure you aren't playing at one of them as you could get banned ;) .

      Best regards,

      Primzi
      Why is it prohibited? Is it more than just a HUD and tracking program?
    • jecis4
      jecis4
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.01.2010 Posts: 68
      Its a program that uses a database like PTR.com, so it has all the hands the player has played.
    • Schnitzelfisch
      Schnitzelfisch
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 4,952
      That's exactly why ;) .
    • blackops888
      blackops888
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.04.2010 Posts: 502
      Guys... I've just checked the rules on Poker Stars... it's actually forbidden and they even "RESERVE THEMSELVES" the right to confiscate funds of whoever uses Poker Edge and other software of the kind. Here goes the link:

      http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/room/prohibited/

      I only play on Stars, so that's why I send the link, but I think the same rules apply to most major rooms. Be careful. I almost licensed Poker Edge, but after this I had to change my mind.