berlin robbers sentenced

    • Kidsoldja
      Kidsoldja
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      Joined: 18.05.2010 Posts: 51
      German article (with pictures):
      http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/0,1518,703978,00.html

      It reads:

      Judgment has been given in the trial against the Berlin pokerrobbers. The Berlin County Court has given to the four men between 19 and 21 years of age perennial prison sentences for armed robbery and inflicting serious bodily harm.

      Berlin - The Youth Criminal division of the Berlin County Court (Editor's note: in Germany criminals between the age of 18 and 21, by estimate of the court, can be tried by youth criminal law, as they are in the "process of growing up") had demanded 4-5 year prison sentences, while the defense council asked for considerably weaker prison and probation sentences.

      On March 6 the four armed and masked men had robbed Germany's biggest Poker tournament in a Berlin luxury hotel at Potsdamer Platz and got away with approximately 240.000 €. The suspects' family all have an immigration background. The suspects were in pre-trail custody already two weeks after the robbery. A 28-year old motorcar-mechanic was also captured. He allegedly planned the robbery and drove the get-away vehicle.

      A 21-year old was released at the end of march on certain conditions. He made an extense confession to the Police whereby incriminating his accomplices. Since his confession was decisive in resolving the crime, he was able to take advantage of the leniency policy for principal witnesses. Accordingly his sentence is likely to be considerably diminished.

      The bigger part of the money is missing to this day. Trial against two other alleged accomplices (Editor's note: supposedly the "brains" behind the thing) of the coup is due to start in August.
  • 23 replies
    • Hahaownedlolz
      Hahaownedlolz
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      Joined: 24.04.2009 Posts: 1,755
      Wow.. 20 years? really? just for stealing? :f_mad: Here in holland you can get as few as 6 years if you kill someone.
    • goldchess
      goldchess
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      I think you read it wrong, 19-21 are their ages.
    • supeyrio
      supeyrio
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      Joined: 11.11.2009 Posts: 3,106
      over here, u get hanged for trafficking 10g of heroine :s_o:
    • gadget51
      gadget51
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      Joined: 23.06.2008 Posts: 5,622
      Over here you get 2 years 'Suspended,' 12 weeks swanning around the Carribean on a yaght as a 'Team Building Excerise,' a job when you return 'rehabilitated' and a council flat; all paid for by the tax-payer of course. But I'm not cynical, honest.
    • Berzerger
      Berzerger
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      Joined: 24.03.2008 Posts: 910
      Originally posted by supeyrio
      over here, u get hanged for trafficking 10g of heroine :s_o:
      Helping people feel good is punishable by death? Damn, where do you live, China?
    • Hahaownedlolz
      Hahaownedlolz
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      Originally posted by Berzerger
      Originally posted by supeyrio
      over here, u get hanged for trafficking 10g of heroine :s_o:
      Helping people feel good is punishable by death? Damn, where do you live, China?
      Helping people feel good? You mean fucking up people's lifes.. If it was weed i could have said ok.. it's not that bad.. But trust me.. Weed will really fuck you up if you do it every other day for years..
    • Berzerger
      Berzerger
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      Originally posted by Hahaownedlolz
      Originally posted by Berzerger
      Originally posted by supeyrio
      over here, u get hanged for trafficking 10g of heroine :s_o:
      Helping people feel good is punishable by death? Damn, where do you live, China?
      Helping people feel good? You mean fucking up people's lifes.. If it was weed i could have said ok.. it's not that bad.. But trust me.. Weed will really fuck you up if you do it every other day for years..
      Heroin abusers ruin their own lives. What a client does with his product is his own responsibility, not the distributor's. The main reason dealing is outlawed because those people make money outside of tax regulated economy, which is not a crime worth death punishment by any standards.

      Theft is a bit worse since you're stealing from people, not the government...
    • Kidsoldja
      Kidsoldja
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      Joined: 18.05.2010 Posts: 51
      Originally posted by gadget51
      Over here you get 2 years 'Suspended,' 12 weeks swanning around the Carribean on a yaght as a 'Team Building Excerise,' a job when you return 'rehabilitated' and a council flat; all paid for by the tax-payer of course. But I'm not cynical, honest.

      where do u live? dubai?
    • conall88
      conall88
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      Joined: 02.01.2009 Posts: 1,715
      lol no. dubai is a slum now. you need to fast forward past the economic boom.
    • ExternalUseOnly
      ExternalUseOnly
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      Originally posted by supeyrio
      over here, u get hanged for trafficking 10g of heroine :s_o:
      good
    • Berzerger
      Berzerger
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      Joined: 24.03.2008 Posts: 910
      Originally posted by ExternalUseOnly
      Originally posted by supeyrio
      over here, u get hanged for trafficking 10g of heroine :s_o:
      good
      And that's why people like you aren't allowed in the parliament.
    • Justin37
      Justin37
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      Joined: 25.07.2009 Posts: 445
      Originally posted by Berzerger
      Originally posted by Hahaownedlolz
      Originally posted by Berzerger
      Originally posted by supeyrio
      over here, u get hanged for trafficking 10g of heroine :s_o:
      Helping people feel good is punishable by death? Damn, where do you live, China?
      Helping people feel good? You mean fucking up people's lifes.. If it was weed i could have said ok.. it's not that bad.. But trust me.. Weed will really fuck you up if you do it every other day for years..
      Heroin abusers ruin their own lives. What a client does with his product is his own responsibility, not the distributor's. The main reason dealing is outlawed because those people make money outside of tax regulated economy, which is not a crime worth death punishment by any standards.

      Theft is a bit worse since you're stealing from people, not the government...
      Well, have u seen the drug addict life?
      How miserable they are n making their own family suffer?
      Have u live with drug addict before?
      Drugs > Money > Stealing > Robbing > Killing > Suicide + etc ( Just watch the movie "American Gangster")

      Well, here in Malaysia, almost everyone agreed that drug seller (illegal) should be hang to death. I tend to agree with that. That y our government give penalty death to any drug pusher. This is not about un-TAX money, but this is about taking care your children and your generation. Bcoz there are only two purpose of drug, for MEDICINE or to Waste your life.

      Would u like your son or daugther to be a drug seller illegaly?
    • Berzerger
      Berzerger
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      Joined: 24.03.2008 Posts: 910
      Originally posted by Justin37
      Well, have u seen the drug addict life?
      How miserable they are n making their own family suffer?
      Have u live with drug addict before?
      Drugs > Money > Stealing > Robbing > Killing > Suicide + etc ( Just watch the movie "American Gangster")
      American Gangster is about violence and power, not drug abuse. Watch Requiem for a Dream, much more fitting. About your connection, I'll have to cut you off at "Money >". It doesn't really go past that point until you start abusing the substance to the extent where it becomes your primary activity (instead of work or hobbies). If you haven't stopped yourself before that point, don't go round blaming other people.

      Originally posted by Justin37
      Well, here in Malaysia, almost everyone agreed that drug seller (illegal) should be hang to death. I tend to agree with that. That y our government give penalty death to any drug pusher.
      The original discussion was about trafficking, not selling, but this thread is turning into a crime discussion so I'll be happy to go there. First off, a bunch of people agreeing on something doesn't make it just or true. Just a few centuries ago pretty much everyone agreed that the Earth was flat. Secondly, if someone thinks a person should be sentenced to death for selling weed or mushrooms, he doesn't deserve to have an opinion. There's a huge variety of recreational drugs, and by far not all of them are addictive. Third, it's not okay to give someone the option to buy a drug that may or may not cause health problems to long-term users, but it's okay to murder you if you do so? It's the very definition of disproportionate punishment.

      Originally posted by Justin37
      This is not about un-TAX money, but this is about taking care your children and your generation.
      With the easiest and worst solution of all. Trying to cut away the supply instead of reducing the demand. People don't become addicts because their dealers forced them into drug use, they try out of curiosity. Those who get hooked don't pay attention to dosage and just chase the initial high they got when they first tried the drug. Blaming the dealer in this case is like blaming the poker room after going broke because you ignored BRM. It's not about money, you say? Well, it's conveniently cheaper to hang someone than building more rehabilitation centers and organize campaigns to inform people about (dangers of) drug abuse.

      Originally posted by Justin37
      Bcoz there are only two purpose of drug, for MEDICINE or to Waste your life.
      I take it you don't drink alcohol? Anyways, google psychonautics, you'll be surprised.

      Originally posted by Justin37
      Would u like your son or daugther to be a drug seller illegaly?
      Would you like your son or daughter to be hanged for selling an xtc pill?
    • Hahaownedlolz
      Hahaownedlolz
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      Berzerger why the hell are you defending usage and selling of drugs? Do you do drugs? You do realise how addictive some drugs are right? And will all the new types of drugs nowadays you can be addicted after only a few times. That has nothing to do with that person..


      I hope you stop using drugs. Because you might think your in control of it now.. But drugs don't do you any good. I know people that have been smoking weed for many years several times a week. And i see how much that has fucked them up. I can only imagine how bad it is with drugs like cocaine/meth/heroine.

      If your not using drugs, Then why the hell are you defending it? Almost if not all drugs have health issues or serious side effects.. Hardcore drugs make people become addicted so quickly and only care about getting another high. That they WILL neglect their family. And once they run out of cash most people will start doing criminal things or selling their body to get it. If you honestly don't see how many damage drugs can do then you really need to start opening your eyes and stop living in your fairy tale world.


      I think this is one of the funniest things you've said.
      What a client does with his product is his own responsibility

      Ofcourse give a crack addict some crack and it's not your fault that he uses it.. Come on live in the real world kid. They are addicts ofcourse they are going to use it. And it's NOT right to give or sell drugs. Is it right to sell weapon to little kids? Is it right to sell drugs to kids? By your logic it is. It's their own responsibility right?



      Btw we are talking about hardcore drugs. That make people addicted quickly. And simply cause WAY more harm then it does anyone good. Make a clear difference between softcore and hardcore drugs.. But like i said earlier even softcore drugs can really mess you up. And imo it's better that they stay illegal then to have people acces them freely and have certain people abuse them.
    • Berzerger
      Berzerger
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      Joined: 24.03.2008 Posts: 910
      Originally posted by Hahaownedlolz
      Berzerger why the hell are you defending usage and selling of drugs? Do you do drugs? You do realise how addictive some drugs are right? And will all the new types of drugs nowadays you can be addicted after only a few times. That has nothing to do with that person..
      A liberal at heart, I don't believe the government should interfere with a person's use of psychoactives as long as he uses them responsibly (as in without endangering others). But the discussion started when I saw someone approving death penalty, and for what? Selling a chemical? That kind of ticked me off right there.

      Originally posted by Hahaownedlolz
      I hope you stop using drugs. Because you might think your in control of it now.. But drugs don't do you any good. I know people that have been smoking weed for many years several times a week. And i see how much that has fucked them up. I can only imagine how bad it is with drugs like cocaine/meth/heroine.
      Ever seen a hardcore alcoholic? Not much better. In fact worse. Although alcohol is completely legal and everyone is free to abuse it in the privacy of his own home, for better or worse. However, overwhelming majority of alcohol users do just fine drinking in bars and parties, having fun and not turning into alcoholics. People could do the same thing with less dangerous drugs, but it's illegal and apparently some believe this should be punishable by death. Now, I appreciate your concern for my health, I just don't want you to associate the word "drugs" with a broke crackhead looking to kill and rob someone to buy another fix as you seem to believe this is where all "drug users" inevitably end up.

      Originally posted by Hahaownedlolz
      If your not using drugs, Then why the hell are you defending it? Almost if not all drugs have health issues or serious side effects.. Hardcore drugs make people become addicted so quickly and only care about getting another high. That they WILL neglect their family. And once they run out of cash most people will start doing criminal things or selling their body to get it. If you honestly don't see how many damage drugs can do then you really need to start opening your eyes and stop living in your fairy tale world.
      Fairy tale world, eh? I understand you're trying to get the point across that drug abuse is a problem, and I agree with that. What I'm trying to explain is that your thought process regarding how people become addicts isn't entirely correct. They don't automatically switch into addict mode because there's a dealer in the neighborhood. They buy the drug out of curiosity or try it because their friends do it. And for most users, this is where it ends after a couple of times. Those who do get hooked and don't seek help indeed to turn into addicts. But what is the solution to help those addicts? Execute their dealers? That's what the government of Malaysia (among others) suggests. I strongly disagree and because of that I'm now being labeled as inhumane drug proponent...

      Originally posted by Hahaownedlolz
      I think this is one of the funniest things you've said.
      What a client does with his product is his own responsibility

      Ofcourse give a crack addict some crack and it's not your fault that he uses it.. Come on live in the real world kid. They are addicts ofcourse they are going to use it. And it's NOT right to give or sell drugs. Is it right to sell weapon to little kids? Is it right to sell drugs to kids? By your logic it is. It's their own responsibility right?
      Here you already assume the user is an addict. If someone gave you crystal meth, would you right away proceed to smoke it and turn yourself into an addict? No? Well if someone else does, is his dealer to blame for that choice? Now, let's assume we have an addict, and his dealer gets a change of heart and quits because he now believes selling drugs is immoral. Ever seen a hard drug junkie trying to go cold turkey? Not the most peaceful person imaginable. This person needs help, and killing his dealer doesn't help him one bit. What I see governments around the world do is spending more money on combating drug distribution and less on helping people.

      Let's move on to your argument that selling guns to kids would be equally responsible. There's a difference between children and addicts. Children do not yet have enough life experience to significantly distinguish between right and wrong, which is why they're considered underage if they're younger than 18. Addicts are adults who chose to start and continue using drugs until physical dependence occurred. They do need help, but you shouldn't treat them as "victims of drug dealers", they're the ones who got themselves in such situation. Children are susceptible to the power of suggestion, you can make them believe drugs are cool, but that's clearly more immoral than selling to a junkie.

      Originally posted by Hahaownedlolz
      Btw we are talking about hardcore drugs. That make people addicted quickly. And simply cause WAY more harm then it does anyone good. Make a clear difference between softcore and hardcore drugs.. But like i said earlier even softcore drugs can really mess you up. And imo it's better that they stay illegal then to have people acces them freely and have certain people abuse them.
      The Dutch Opium law says 2C-B is a hard drug. It's not addictive and I've never heard of anyone dying from it. That's just one example. I never bothered to check every schedule of every drug law in every country, but who says possession/distribution of equally harmless drugs isn't punishable by death in some countries? And you're just okay with that? No need to look into details, just make it easy and forbid them all?

      On to the legality issue. First of all, making something illegal doesn't eradicate it from existence, it just makes sure the traffic goes through illegal channels and everyone involved becomes a criminal. You say it is better not to give people the possibility rather than risking them abusing hard drugs. I'm compelled to agree here. However, I don't think this is an optimal system for all psychoactive substances as most of them can be used recreationally like nicotine, theobromine and alcohol, which are all socially accepted drugs.

      Finally, every year more people die of lung cancer than of drug overdose, every cigarette pack says "SMOKING KILLS!", tobacco companies keep turning huge profits every year and no one even thinks about outlawing smoking even though this is literally drug dealing on the largest of scales.
    • Berzerger
      Berzerger
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      Joined: 24.03.2008 Posts: 910
      Apologies for walls of text to those who came to read about the Berlin robbery.
    • Wriggers
      Wriggers
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      Joined: 21.07.2009 Posts: 3,250
      I've got to agree with Berzerger here. Although of course drug dealing isn't the most moral career path one could take, but I mean, execution because of it? I don't think so.

      I too have seen a major alcoholic, and i've got to say he was in a worse state than any junkie i've seen. He was one of my Dad's old friends that came up to visit, and he would buy multiple bottles of spirits every day, waking up in the middle of the night shaking and shivering because he hadn't had a drink in an hour. He really was a state. Oh, and by the way, i'm saying "was" because he's dead now :/. But should we blame the bars and shops for selling them this alcohol when he so obviously had a problem?

      Also, you're painting this picture of a drug dealer as some heartless moron who cares only for his profit, but that isn't true. I've got a good friend who used to deal drugs, and I saw him trying to convince an addict to stop taking it so much, because he saw they had a problem. But then obviously there are issues when a dealer refuses to sell to a customer...
    • Hahaownedlolz
      Hahaownedlolz
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      I don't agree with execution of anyone. Exept for people who have done truly terrible things.


      And yes alcohol can cause problems. But it's not as addictive as drugs like heroin or crystal meth. I don't think alcohol and those drugs should be put in the same box either. Drug addicts can't think straight, they don't think logically. All they care about is getting their next hit/high. And that is one thing i can say from personal experience. When the effects of alcohol wears off people can still think straight as far as i'm aware of.


      @Wriggers Are you really going to defend drug dealers? :f_mad: Shit happens and sometimes you got to do what you got to do. But i sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a neighbourhood full of drug dealers.


      (That's all i got to say, i think i made my point clear. So probably won't reply anymore)
    • Wriggers
      Wriggers
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      I'm not defending drug dealers, i'm defending the execution of drug dealers, because that is truly ridiculous. And also just pointing out that not all drug dealers are heartless and immoral, although I do understand a lot are ;)

      And regarding "When alcohol wears off alcoholics can think straight". That is complete nonsense. Drugs and alcohol are the same, obviously stuff like crystal meth and heroin are more addictive and are obviously a lot worse. But when you look at stuff like weed, ecstasy, cocaine etc it is the same as alcohol. Hard to get addicted to, and when they wear off you are thinking straight again. But when you are an alcoholic it never wears off, the alcoholic I knew, he was pretty much constantly drunk for 2 or 3 years, and whenever he started to come down off it all he sure as hell wasn't thinking logically, he was just thinking about taking his next mouthful of whisky so he wasn't getting the withdrawal symptoms any more. Addiction is the same throughout drugs, some are harder to get addicted to, some have worse withdrawal symptoms. But I do believe going cold turkey off alcohol after being an addict is one of the worst withdrawals know to man, due to the fact just stopping drinking altogether can actually kill you. I don't know the specifics but when you are an alcoholic the alcohol replaces some hormone from your brain, and when you stop drinking you now have nothing replacing this hormone and the hormone itself has stopped being produced, and can lead to death.
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