What's up with this wave of min raisers? How to deal with them=

    • alenstrat
      alenstrat
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.03.2009 Posts: 821
      I don't know if anyone else has noticed it, but in the past week or so, at least on NL5 in Full Tilt, there has been an invasion of min raisers. In particular a lot annoying min raising blind stealers, but also players that are min raising all the time. Is there some internet site/"poker guru" preaching this?

      How should one deal with them, 3 bet them lightly as a rule?

      I've also noticed a couple of players consistently raising 6x instead of the usual 3x or 3.5x or 4x, and the weird thing is they use the "add one bb per limper rule", ie they raise 7x with 1 limper, 8x with 2, etc. Seen two or three of these guys so it's not someone that's playing like that, they must have seen or read about that somewhere.
  • 16 replies
    • ihufa
      ihufa
      Gold
      Joined: 18.03.2008 Posts: 3,323
      my strategy site just went online

      don't try 3bet them light, i taught them to 4bet light already
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      Call a ton more and play postflop vs minraisers.

      7x, 6x is cool to do if you are at very loose table and expect to get called light mkay
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
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      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      Originally posted by ihufa
      my strategy site just went online

      don't try 3bet them light, i taught them to 4bet light already
      I just published a book about 5betting light tho
    • METALzx
      METALzx
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      Joined: 03.08.2008 Posts: 4,501
      go into minraise fights but remember 37bet is always AA
    • alenstrat
      alenstrat
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      Joined: 13.03.2009 Posts: 821
      Originally posted by NightFrostaSS
      Call a ton more and play postflop vs minraisers.
      OK I'll try that, sounds reasonable.
    • alenstrat
      alenstrat
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      Joined: 13.03.2009 Posts: 821
      Originally posted by METALzx
      go into minraise fights but remember 37bet is always AA
      hehehe, funny, nice one :D
    • SalamiandCheese
      SalamiandCheese
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      Joined: 16.07.2008 Posts: 569
      There's something out there called the Negreanu strategy where u minbet every street until your opponent plays back at u. This guy wasn't going it right. :f_love:

      Full Tilt Poker $2 + $0.15 Heads Up No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t10/t20 Blinds - 2 players

      BB: t1960
      Hero (BTN/SB): t1040

      Pre Flop: (t30) Hero is BTN/SB with 5:club: 6:heart:
      Hero raises to t40, BB raises to t60, Hero calls t20

      Flop: (t120) 3:spade: 4:diamond: 8:club: (2 players)
      BB bets t20, Hero calls t20

      Turn: (t160) 2:spade: (2 players)
      BB bets t20, Hero raises to t40, BB raises to t60, Hero raises to t80, BB raises to t100, Hero raises to t120, BB raises to t140, Hero raises to t160, BB raises to t180, Hero raises to t200, BB raises to t220, Hero raises to t240, BB raises to t260, Hero raises to t280, BB raises to t300, Hero raises to t320, BB raises to t340, Hero raises to t360, BB raises to t380, Hero raises to t400, BB raises to t420, Hero raises to t440, BB raises to t460, Hero raises to t480, BB raises to t500, Hero raises to t520, BB raises to t540, Hero raises to t560, BB raises to t580, Hero raises to t600, BB raises to t620, Hero raises to t640, BB raises to t660, Hero raises to t680, BB raises to t700, Hero raises to t720, BB raises to t740, Hero raises to t760, BB raises to t780, Hero raises to t800, BB raises to t820, Hero raises to t840, BB raises to t860, Hero raises to t880, BB raises to t900, Hero raises to t920, BB raises to t940, Hero raises to t960 all in, BB calls t20

      River: (t2080) K:club: (2 players - 1 is all in)

      Final Pot: t2080
      BB shows 4:spade: 9:spade: (a pair of Fours)
      Hero shows 5:club: 6:heart: (a straight, Six high)
      Hero wins t2080
    • SiXAT
      SiXAT
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.09.2008 Posts: 263
      negreanu invented the small ball, and its not about minraisng like stupid but about bettig many small pots and often attacking the blinds.
    • pzhon
      pzhon
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      Joined: 17.06.2010 Posts: 1,151
      Originally posted by SiXAT
      negreanu invented the small ball, and its not about minraisng like stupid but about bettig many small pots and often attacking the blinds.
      To clarify, small-ball is separate from what is called the Negreanu strategy, which is to minraise or minbet every hand blindly until your opponent plays back at you. Then you look at your hand and play poker. This strategy runs some players over because they do not understand how their standards should change against minimum bets, and many players go on tilt and pay off your good hands too much, perhaps not realizing that you are no longer playing a random hand once they play back at you.

      The Negreanu strategy is described by Negreanu here, and I believe Collin Moshman discusses it more in Heads-Up No Limit Hold'em. I think it's rarely the best strategy, but it's an interesting exercise, and you should make sure that you know how to counter it.
    • alenstrat
      alenstrat
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.03.2009 Posts: 821
      Originally posted by pzhon
      To clarify, small-ball is separate from what is called the Negreanu strategy, which is to minraise or minbet every hand blindly until your opponent plays back at you. Then you look at your hand and play poker. This strategy runs some players over because they do not understand how their standards should change against minimum bets, and many players go on tilt and pay off your good hands too much, perhaps not realizing that you are no longer playing a random hand once they play back at you.

      The Negreanu strategy is described by Negreanu here, and I believe Collin Moshman discusses it more in Heads-Up No Limit Hold'em. I think it's rarely the best strategy, but it's an interesting exercise, and you should make sure that you know how to counter it.
      Wow thanks for the great reply. Very interesting stuff.
    • MrMardyBum
      MrMardyBum
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      Joined: 14.03.2009 Posts: 2,206
      You all seem to forget that it's also in one of the easiest academy challenges, hence why it's on Full Tilt.

      Min Raise in Early position with 88+ A,Q+ x 3 .

      Do that challenge the maximum times (10 times) and that's 30 premium hands (Okay maybe not the mid PP's) for each player doing that challenge. And like I said it's one of the easiest ones. So lots will be doing it.


      You give these fools to much credit at micro stakes, they are merely doing as the challenge tells them. I bet half of them don't even know there is poker literature out there, they just seen the advertisement on TV and thought "Hey, that looks fun!".

      Hence the reason behind Min-raises.


      *Disclaimer: Some people may of looked into Negreanu's Strategy, but I'm pretty sure most will just be clearing Academy challenges.
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
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      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      Originally posted by MrMardyBum
      *Disclaimer: Some people may of looked into Negreanu's Strategy, but I'm pretty sure most will just be clearing Academy challenges.
      Or just clicking buttons
    • conall88
      conall88
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      Joined: 02.01.2009 Posts: 1,715
      two words, "fuzz rule".
    • alenstrat
      alenstrat
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      Joined: 13.03.2009 Posts: 821
      Originally posted by MrMardyBum
      You all seem to forget that it's also in one of the easiest academy challenges, hence why it's on Full Tilt.

      Min Raise in Early position with 88+ A,Q+ x 3 .

      Do that challenge the maximum times (10 times) and that's 30 premium hands (Okay maybe not the mid PP's) for each player doing that challenge. And like I said it's one of the easiest ones. So lots will be doing it.


      You give these fools to much credit at micro stakes, they are merely doing as the challenge tells them. I bet half of them don't even know there is poker literature out there, they just seen the advertisement on TV and thought "Hey, that looks fun!".

      Hence the reason behind Min-raises.


      *Disclaimer: Some people may of looked into Negreanu's Strategy, but I'm pretty sure most will just be clearing Academy challenges.

      That's useful info, yeah I've briefly looked over the Full Tilt academy stuff, but never actually did any challenges or saw the videos. I definitely will now. I'm sure one can catch on a lot of tells that many players on Full Tilt will be doing just because they saw it in the academy.

      With this info in hand I think taking a look at the Full Tilt academy is a must for anyone playing microstakes there since many players will be following the academy doctrine.

      I now think, as you said, all the min raising I've been seeing all of a sudden is just because of something that was posted in the Full Tilt academy recently.
    • SiXAT
      SiXAT
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      Joined: 28.09.2008 Posts: 263
      so they minraise 3bet a lot.. so it gives good to continue, if he is a reg then will tighten up a bit and once in a while make plays, agaimst a fish i just wait for a good hand and see more flops after a 3bet.
    • taavi1337
      taavi1337
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.05.2009 Posts: 2,920
      Originally posted by alenstrat
      I don't know if anyone else has noticed it, but in the past week or so, at least on NL5 in Full Tilt, there has been an invasion of min raisers.
      FL regs looking for new challenges