Super turbo FR SNGs

    • Schnitzelfisch
      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 4,952

      First of all, I would like to know what the BRM for super turbo FR SNGs on full tilt (300 starting chips, 3 min blind levels) should be. 100BI? 200BI?

      I would also like to know if there are any articles or videos about them on pokerstrategy, how many BI swings can I expect and if anyone has any helpful advice for me, I would be glad to take it.

      I am currently thinking about playing $2.15 or $5.30 ones.

  • 8 replies
    • MatejM47
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      Imo 50-100 BI roll is more then enough for micro limits. But once you move up a limit to like 20$ bi i think you need at least 100BI or more. Skill difference really gets higher when you get up there compared to 2 and 5$ tournaments.
    • gudalemandele
      Joined: 27.05.2008 Posts: 171
      If you play 1 table, sure 100 BI is enough..
    • VicoII
      Joined: 06.08.2008 Posts: 60
      gudalemandele - it's not suppose to be one of your bankroll considerations if you play 1 table or 9.

      anyway 100 buy ins is a good guide line for a micro super turbos.
    • Leito99
      Joined: 27.07.2009 Posts: 754
      i use 200 BI for hyperturbos and im happy i do cuz i just had 50BI downswing with them :rolleyes:

      but the upswings are super nice :f_p:
    • pinnryder
      Joined: 10.11.2009 Posts: 597
      I think I would play them at all because I don't want to get a heartattack ;)
      But if your mindset is allright... Although I would use a higher BRM (~150 BI), variance must be brutal in these...
    • pzhon
      Joined: 17.06.2010 Posts: 1,151
      The bankroll you need depends on your win rate. You might have a good guess about your win rate or not, but others can only have wild guesses.

      A useful formula is

      bankroll = comfort * standard deviation^2 / win rate.

      Comfort is a term which depends on your personal risk tolerance, and how willing and able you are to move down in stakes if you hit a bad streak. An aggressive player may use a comfort level of 2. A conservative player may use a comfort level of 4. Most people want to use a value somewhere between 2 and 4. Another interpretation of the comfort level is that your risk of ruin if you stay at the same level without withdrawing is about 1/7^comfort, so 2% for an aggressive player and 0.04% for a conservative one.

      Standard deviation is a statistical measure of the size of the gamble of playing a tournament. A tournament is about as risky as a fair coin-flip for 1 standard deviation. Your standard deviation mainly depends on the prize structure, so it is about the same for any 9-player 50-30-20 tournament, super turbo, turbo, or regular speed. The standard deviation is about 1.5 buy-ins.

      Win rate should be measured in the same units as the standard deviation. You can express both in $/tournament, or % of a buy-in, or buy-ins.

      For example, if you choose a comfort level of 3, and you believe your ROI is 5%, then the formula suggests that you use a bankroll of

      3 x 1.5^2 / 0.05 buy-ins = 135 buy-ins.

      Because win rates are often lower in super turbos than in turbo or regular speed SNGs, you should expect that you will see larger downswings in buy-ins, and you need a larger bankroll for the same level of safety.

      If your bankroll falls below this amount, you don't have to move down immediately. However, playing with less than half of the amount suggested by the formula should be viewed as an expense, and you should usually try to move down before then.
    • Tampaloeres81
      Joined: 08.03.2009 Posts: 1,416

      How accurate is SNGWiz for these super turbos's? I have played a few now and reviewed with SNGWiz (configured for the stacksizes and payout structed etc.).

    • pzhon
      Joined: 17.06.2010 Posts: 1,151
      The ICM applies very well to super turbos. The standard problem remains: SNG Wizard's default ranges very poorly model your opponents, so you need to adjust them to get good answers out of SNG Wizard.

      For example, set up an 8 bb push from the SB, and see what range SNG Wizard gives the BB for calling. Then change your position to the HJ and push again for 8 bb. Change it to the bubble and push when the BB has the second stack and 8 bb. You will not see as much variation in the calling range as you should expect from your opponents.

      You do get a few more situations in super turbos than turbos or regular speed SNGs where you might make a desperation shove before you hit the blinds. It can be correct to push even though you will lose equity according to the ICM. Be very careful with this, as many players overuse desperation shoves when they actually cost a lot of money.