Push or fold charts =/= icm trainer?

    • Childhood
      Joined: 05.12.2009 Posts: 17

      I was practicing with ICM trainer, and i couldn't understand why it says im wrong :(

      in the "Push-Chart when you are first-in"

      Says that I can push A9o - A2o from the cutoff if I'm below 7BB,

      Which in the ICM trainer, I had only 6.5BB, and said that I can only push A9o+

      Can someone tell me if I'm misreading the charts??


  • 4 replies
    • lennonac
      Joined: 02.05.2009 Posts: 1,421
      you are reading it correctly, the only thing i can guess is the edge that is set is too high.

      This is pretty close to any two spot
    • jafey
      Joined: 08.07.2010 Posts: 1
      It happens to me too
    • Ramble
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 1,421
      Hi Childhood,

      You are reading the charts correctly.

      Something to keep in mind though is that the charts are a general guideline that cannot represent every situation, i.e how many players remain, the relative chip-stacks (besides the 13-big blind stipulation), player tendencies, etc...

      In the ICM software, it looks at each situation from a strictly mathematical point of view.

      All things considered in the example provided, I would probably push with A3o in that spot.
    • pzhon
      Joined: 17.06.2010 Posts: 1,151
      In general, you should trust what ICM Trainer says over the charts. The charts are a simplification which can be memorized, or printed out and posted by your computer, but they overlook many important features of the situation such as whether you are pushing into players who cover you by a lot.

      ICM Trainer tries to calculate the game theoretically optimal play given the stacks and blinds, and the assumptions that people play push/fold, and that the ICM is accurate. The main reason to question what ICM Trainer says is if you feel you have a better read on how your opponents play, in which case you can use a tool like SNG Wizard. There are also times to modify the ICM, such as when you are about to hit the blinds, or if a player is sitting out. If those aren't issues, then try to follow ICM Trainer instead of the charts.

      Weak offsuit aces are often not Nash equilibrium pushes from the CO, particularly when you push into players who cover you by a lot, who are therefore not risk-averse against you. Usually they are pushes from the BTN.