Bubble Boy.......

    • jass1960
      jass1960
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.04.2010 Posts: 709
      Been playing 3 full-table SNGs (27 & 30) and although I had a ROI of 16% I feel frustrated I didn't do better.

      13 Tournaments
      10 Final Tables
      5 ITM

      I've looked back at my shoves and think they were the right calls.
      99 from Button (Bubble Boy)
      TT from Button (Bubble Boy)
      44 from SB
      KJ from SB
      AQ from SB re-steal from Button (KJo) (Bubble Boy)

      I played well throughout but still have this feeling of frustration. Do others have days like this?
  • 10 replies
    • lennonac
      lennonac
      Global
      Joined: 02.05.2009 Posts: 1,421
      Unless you were an extream shorty I dont think calling 99 or TT on the bubble is going to be profitable, in fact I know it is not.

      My advise would be to get sng wiz and take a look at the games on the bubble.
    • jass1960
      jass1960
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.04.2010 Posts: 709
      Had about 10/11BB in both cases.......
    • savage1981
      savage1981
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.05.2010 Posts: 945
      Can't really see how these can be unprofitable pushes. 99 or TT on the button is the nuts in my book. So goes for 44 or KJ in the SB. If u were to call with these hands, I guess a lot depends on whether you've got the pusher covered and whether there are any micro stacks at the table about to be blinded out.

      If it makes you feel any better, I just lost over $200 in one day (my BR was just over a grand) by losing most coin flips on the bubble, and most of the spots when I was 7/3 favourite. In fact, I was beginning to think that AK was actually a 7/3 dog to any lower Ace and Pokerstove somehow got it wrong. And I was running like that all blody day, non-stop. Felt like crying.
    • Hlynkinn
      Hlynkinn
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.06.2008 Posts: 4,998
      Originally posted by savage1981
      Can't really see how these can be unprofitable pushes. 99 or TT on the button is the nuts in my book. So goes for 44 or KJ in the SB. If u were to call with these hands, I guess a lot depends on whether you've got the pusher covered and whether there are any micro stacks at the table about to be blinded out.

      If it makes you feel any better, I just lost over $200 in one day (my BR was just over a grand) by losing most coin flips on the bubble, and most of the spots when I was 7/3 favourite. In fact, I was beginning to think that AK was actually a 7/3 dog to any lower Ace and Pokerstove somehow got it wrong. And I was running like that all blody day, non-stop. Felt like crying.
      yup that actually makes me feel much better. ty!!
    • lessthanthreee
      lessthanthreee
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.06.2009 Posts: 16,300
      best advice i can give is to post your trouble hands on the hand judging forums and we can see if you have any bubble leaks.

      13 tournamants is nothing, the best players in the world can go 13 tournaments making the correct play in every single hand and still not cash once. SnGs are a long term game, you have to make the correct decision for the long term and put all the short term results out of your mind.
    • jass1960
      jass1960
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.04.2010 Posts: 709
      Originally posted by lessthanthreee
      best advice i can give is to post your trouble hands on the hand judging forums and we can see if you have any bubble leaks.

      13 tournamants is nothing, the best players in the world can go 13 tournaments making the correct play in every single hand and still not cash once. SnGs are a long term game, you have to make the correct decision for the long term and put all the short term results out of your mind.
      I know it was a small sample and I still had a winning day (nor was I tilting!), just had a feeling I should have done better.

      Will post some of the hands for analysis.
    • jass1960
      jass1960
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.04.2010 Posts: 709
      Originally posted by savage1981
      Can't really see how these can be unprofitable pushes. 99 or TT on the button is the nuts in my book. So goes for 44 or KJ in the SB. If u were to call with these hands, I guess a lot depends on whether you've got the pusher covered and whether there are any micro stacks at the table about to be blinded out.
      On the whole they were playing tight and I thought these were good (profitable) shoves - just that they had AK, AQ, AJ and the A flopped time and time again!!
    • lessthanthreee
      lessthanthreee
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.06.2009 Posts: 16,300
      people just got confused because in your original post you said you called with these hands, not shoved.
    • jass1960
      jass1960
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.04.2010 Posts: 709
      Originally posted by jass1960

      I've looked back at my shoves and think they were the right calls.
      ooppss see what you mean!!!
    • pzhon
      pzhon
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.06.2010 Posts: 1,151
      All finishes out of the money are roughly equal. Bubbling out can be slightly worse because you invest more time, but the main reason it seems worse is just psychological, that you got your hopes up. Some winning players have a style which bubbles out a lot, and some winning players bubble out less often.

      Would it be worth cutting your ROI by a few percent to decrease the frequency with which you bubble out? It is up to you, but at the end of the year your bankroll will remember your ROI, and not how often you bubbled out. One player I know hates bubbling out so much that he sacrificed a lot of ROI by not being aggressive on the bubble: He would accumulate a large stack through good shoves, then he would fold into the money. He had a decent ROI, but it could have been much higher. Later, he avoided bubbling out by not playing at all, giving up the rest of his ROI.

      When you get knocked out of a tournament, this can be blamed on two thing: First, you lost the last hand you played. Second, you didn't have your opponent covered. You haven't talked about the second issue. Perhaps there was no problem with the way you played the last hand, but consider whether you were taking advantage of good opportunities earlier. If you were passing up good gambles earlier, you might get to the bubble more frequently but with a short stack so that even if you survive, you have a much lower chance to win the tournament.

      I'm concerned that the hands you asked about do not seem like they should be marginal pushes. Normally, I push much worse hands. You should be very confident that pushing hands like KJ or 44 from the small blind is correct in the vast majority of final table situations.

      Of course, it is also normal to wait until you have a lot more data than 13 tournaments before drawing firm conclusions. After 13 tournaments, your ROI of 16% should be viewed as 16% +- 100%.