[NL2-NL10] KQo hit top pair, facing donk

    • Gugi19
      Gugi19
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.01.2010 Posts: 325
      Full Tilt - $0.10 NL RUSH (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

      SB: $8.66
      BB: $4.00
      Hero (UTG): $14.52
      MP: $9.25
      CO: $11.16
      BTN: $3.80

      SB posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

      Pre Flop: (pot: $0.15) Hero has K:spade: Q:diamond:

      Hero raises to $0.35, MP calls $0.35, fold, fold, SB calls $0.30, fold

      Flop: ($1.15, 3 players) T:club: 5:heart: Q:club:
      SB bets $0.70, Hero calls $0.70, fold

      Turn: ($2.55, 2 players) A:spade:
      SB bets $1.60, Hero calls $1.60

      River: ($5.75, 2 players) 2:club:
      SB bets $6.01 and is all-in, fold

      Both players that have called preflop are unknown.

      I thought he could donk with Qx, Tx, FD, SD... So I called two streets and folded river because of completed flush. I would also fold to some other scary card like T, K, J maybe 8. Is this ok or I just call flop and fold turn, or maybe raise flop to see where I stand?
  • 3 replies
    • blackops888
      blackops888
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.04.2010 Posts: 502
      Hey Gugi19. In the lack of any further information about the opponent (both for the way RUSH poker works and for the reason that maybe you have never seen him playing before), it is quite hard to know where you stand in this hand, but some things could have been done.

      Maybe once he was on SB against a raise and a cold-call, he could eventually just call AQ or AT in case he was a passive player. In the same way, he could also have just called pocket 5s, hitting a set on the flop. I've seen tons of passive players on NL10 who just call whatever they have when facing apparently strong opposition (raise and cold-call in this spot when out of position), raising only in case they've got TT+ or AK. So... that's possibilitity 1 (we have to speculate once he is just an unknown).

      Possibility number 2 supports that he could have just called because he actually had marginal holdings such as QT (hitting two pair) and weak Tx/Qx (hitting one pair only with mediocre kicker). I would not put him on a flush (two clubs on the hole) or straight draw (KJ or 98) right on the spot because at this limit people still tend to play their flush and straight draws very passively. Instead of donking, they usually hope to get a free card just by check/calling small bets.

      In both situations (number 1, when you are already crushed, and number 2, when you are still ahead) you should have used your position and raised the flop right on the spot. This could have made him fold weaker holdings such as Tx/Qx right there. A raise to 2.00 on his bet of 0.70 would have been fine.

      In case he had a draw, he would be contributing with 1.30 more for a pot of 5.15, which is about 25% total. He could actually pay this amount, but that would have been a mistake given the bad odds YOU WERE PRESENTING to his flush draw. It is important to understand the idea of how you can control the odds you opponent is getting when facing him heads-up and in position.

      In case he actually had you crushed with 55, AQ or AT, that ace on the turn would make him either bet big on you or try to trap and just check. If he bets big, you can then easily fold, given the resistance he offers and the presence of an overcard. If he checks, you can make a small bet such as half-pot and see what happens. He could then raise you or just call and finally check again on the river. In this case you check back. If he bets big on the river, you fold, given his resistance, the A on the turn and the flush card.

      It's a very speculative analysis, once we have no clue about who this player might be or what kind of line he could take. All we can do is probe his play RIGHT ON THE FLOP with a raise, instead of just calling like you did in this hand. What happened from then on would define the hand.

      Got it? Also, by raising 2.00 on the flop and being beaten on the turn would have avoided the loss of 2.30 that you ended up having in this hand after the flop. That's a 0.30 spare and might have given you a clue of weather you were actually beaten or not.
    • Gugi19
      Gugi19
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.01.2010 Posts: 325
      Originally posted by blackops888
      In both situations (number 1, when you are already crushed, and number 2, when you are still ahead) you should have used your position and raised the flop right on the spot. This could have made him fold weaker holdings such as Tx/Qx right there. A raise to 2.00 on his bet of 0.70 would have been fine.
      Thanks, your analysis helps. I also thought that raise is the best option, but I didn't raise because there was a player behind me still to act. I guess that was a mistake.

      Thanks again.

      Cheers
    • MaestroOfZerg
      MaestroOfZerg
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 5,510
      Hi,


      We have no interest whatsoever in him folding weaker holdings, that's the only way we get any value out of the hand. Almost all raises you could make that result in your opponent folding the hands we beat are bad information raises. And it forces us to raise/fold, since we'd only be up against really good hands at that point given the assumption that he'll fold weaker hands to the flop raise. Except people actually donking out with draws can and will jam them over our raise and if they have enough of them we have to call it off.

      I'd much rather just call like hero did and try to play it out. The turn is somewhat bad, all nut flushdraws are now ahead of us and so is KJ. Against a tight player I wouldn't mind getting away at that point, tho since he's an unknown calling one more bet is probably the right play. On the river either he was bluffing from the start or there is no way our KQ is good, I like your fold with no reads.


      Hope it helps.