[NL20-NL50] Flush draw hitting TP turn

    • Dublimax
      Dublimax
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.11.2008 Posts: 2,233
      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      €0.1/€0.2 No-Limit Hold'em (5 handed)

      Known players:
      23.11
      17.20
      19.76
      26.43
      38.60


      Preflop: Hero is MP3 with T, J.
      Hero raises to €0.80, CO calls €0.80, BU folds, SB calls €0.70, BB folds.

      Flop: (€2.6) 9, 3, 4 (3 players)
      SB checks, Hero bets €1.80, CO raises to €3.60, SB folds, Hero calls €1.80.

      Turn: (€9.8) T (2 players)
      Hero checks, CO checks.

      River: (€9.8) 2 (2 players)
      Hero bets €4.90, CO raises to €12.25, Hero calls €7.35.

      Final Pot: €34.3.

      Villain is 26/19/67 over 27 hands.

      I don't understand the min raise on the flop. I have odds to call.
      With the T on the turn I plan to check Raise AI.
      He checks behind so I think he is drawing as well so I think I'm ahead.
      The 2 comes, I still think I'm ahead and Value Bet. He raises which to me looks like somehow like a bluff and am happy to call with TP.

      1) Should I bet the turn?
      2) was my C/R Ai idea on the turn ok?
      3) Can I value bet on the river?
      4) Shoudl I call his river raise?

      Thanks
  • 7 replies
    • N0pr3s3n7
      N0pr3s3n7
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 14.05.2009 Posts: 1,276
      1) On this board he is either min raising 99/33/44 or a flushdraw which can be stronger than yours or not.Given this the T on the turn doesn't improve any of your equity against 99/33/44 but does improve it in case he has JJ he didn't want to 3bet for example.You are also greatly in front of any flushdraws now because you are holding toppair.

      2)Given my reasons at 1) i'd say it's a tough spot and you should be looking deeper in stats and reads on the opponent if he has made such moves before.26/19/67/27hands(vpip/pfr/??/hands ???).With the stats provided I'd say his range for minraising the flop is set or strong flushdraw like A5/A2/56 which has a gutshot/OESD.After all against his whole range you are quite on a flip (his range: A5s,A2s,56s,33,44,99,TT,JJ vs JsTs 51.9% vs 48.1%) but with the given dead money in the pot you can bet/call.

      3)Most of the time after he checked back the river he is holding a drawing hand which he would be bluffing on the river.So it's better to check/call river instead of beting it because there is no hand that will call you.No flushdraw got there(unless he has minraised some 56 of hearts or something like this which got backdoor but i think he would be betting that most of the time on the turn with the added equity).And i would call anybet there even probably all in because i don't see any hand minraising the flop and checking back the turn which beats me on that river.

      4)The only hand that got there is 56 or A5 so calling when someone is super polarized is never bad idea.He must be bluffing this spot 28% of the time(aprox.)and in my view it will be much more which makes the call profitable for me.
    • 0890477319
      0890477319
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.02.2010 Posts: 1,139
      Sometimes they also min raise TP to board on low boards.
      But anyway I think it's better to play you hand just like drw. Top pair on turn is good but if you c/r only better hand will call you.
      If he chk is either 9x or drw. So ch/c river makes much sence, cause he can bluff his drw and maybe try vb/bluff 9x.
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      I think it is easier to play if you shove flop
      You have enough equity with flushdraw and two overcards,a lso he may easily just bluffing there or min-raise/fold to shove one pair hands
      turn c/rai is fine play. I would also b/c river, although I think you´re beat quite often. Just don´t see players shoving river as bluffs that often, but since he didn´t bet turn then I think he can have there missed draws or pure bluffs.
      If he has there 45 then I´m happy to pay him out and next time I´d just shove flushdraw on the flop
    • Dublimax
      Dublimax
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.11.2008 Posts: 2,233
      Hi Kaitz,

      When you say shove on the flop you mean AI (20ish €) on a 2.60 € pot? Or should I raise big like 7€?
      I'm a bit surprised by this line but if you say so...
      So if I understood well with flush draw + 2 overcards we are ahead of 1 pair hand.

      Thanks for the line, will remember the flush draw 2 overcards thingy, can you just clarify the 20€ shove on the 2.6€ pot?

      Btw he had Kh9h
    • N0pr3s3n7
      N0pr3s3n7
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 14.05.2009 Posts: 1,276
      Originally posted by Dublimax
      Hi Kaitz,

      When you say shove on the flop you mean AI (20ish €) on a 2.60 € pot? Or should I raise big like 7€?
      I'm a bit surprised by this line but if you say so...
      So if I understood well with flush draw + 2 overcards we are ahead of 1 pair hand.

      Thanks for the line, will remember the flush draw 2 overcards thingy, can you just clarify the 20€ shove on the 2.6€ pot?

      Btw he had Kh9h
      Yep you are ahead of his particular hand but most of the time only versus this hand which is super unlikely that he will call you down.If he happen to call you most of the time it will be set / strong flushdraw or overpairs which you will be behind.Maybe the given odds that there are much dead money should make it a little bit better but I don't think this is profitable since he will fold the hands we are ahead of.
    • i5bet72o
      i5bet72o
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.06.2010 Posts: 1,615
      I tend to agree with Katz here. I feel that u should noit shove str8 away but 3bet the flop and call a shove.
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Originally posted by Dublimax
      Hi Kaitz,

      When you say shove on the flop you mean AI (20ish €) on a 2.60 € pot? Or should I raise big like 7€?
      I'm a bit surprised by this line but if you say so...
      So if I understood well with flush draw + 2 overcards we are ahead of 1 pair hand.

      Thanks for the line, will remember the flush draw 2 overcards thingy, can you just clarify the 20€ shove on the 2.6€ pot?

      Btw he had Kh9h
      Pot is 2.6+1.8+3.6= 8
      you have left around 17. I think it is not that bog overshove consider fold equity that you gain. You can 3-bet to 8, but then you have to call shove or shove at any turn card and better just put your money in the flop with a lot of fold equity that you have just J high