[NL2-NL10] NL2 44 Flopped set, Extracting value?

    • stevegold87
      stevegold87
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.06.2009 Posts: 2,640
      Did I play this correctly to extract as much value from villain?

      Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

      MP2 ($1.95)
      MP3 ($2.24)
      CO ($2)
      Button ($1.97)
      SB ($2.25)
      BB ($1.89)
      UTG ($3)
      UTG+1 ($0.79)
      Hero (MP1) ($2.61)

      Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 4, 4
      2 folds, Hero calls $0.02, MP2 bets $0.08, 5 folds, Hero calls $0.06

      Flop: ($0.19) 4, 8, Q (2 players)
      Hero bets $0.14, MP2 raises to $0.34, Hero raises to $0.80, 1 fold

      Total pot: $0.87 | Rake: $0.05

      Results:
      Hero didn't show 4, 4.
      Outcome: Hero won $0.82
  • 8 replies
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Although the starting hand charts suggest otherwise I think you can raise PPs when first in. Maybe not all of them, but limp/calling is always perceived as weakness thus explaining the r/f by villain on the flop. He thought you were trying to buy the pot but when you 3bet he just had to believe you and let it go. You can call on the flop an check on the turn if it's not a scare card for you. If it completes the flush I think b/f would be the safe line, not necessarily the best..
    • Duudalinja
      Duudalinja
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.12.2009 Posts: 1,030
      I would raise 44 here as well as I just don't like open limping and then it would look different on later streets.
      As played donking out should be fine, but donking/3betting looks way too strong. I think call it on flop and bet ~1/2 pot on turn.
      At the same time I think his cbetting range is wider than his donk calling range, so I would let him cbet and raise it then. It looks strong, but giving him cheap cards may cost you a lot more. If he checks back flop I would just bet the turn and if he gave up on flop I doubt he will have anything anyway.
      Either way it seems strong imo as you limp/called pre and now start betting and raising like crazy.
    • Oly0909
      Oly0909
      Silver
      Joined: 08.06.2008 Posts: 843
      Preflop: I have to disagree with EmanuelC16 and Duudalinja this time. I think you can't raise your 44 for value, and thats what you're doing if raising from MP1. So I think your preflop call is OK.

      Flop: I like your bet size here, just enough for protection against draws, but now when he is raising you, I don't think he's on draw any more. He could be on A :spade: K :spade: or A :spade: J :spade: , but more likely he's on 99+, AQ, KQ so from this point I agree with EmanuelC16 and Duudalinja. Just call him and reevaluate on the turn.
    • stevegold87
      stevegold87
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.06.2009 Posts: 2,640
      I don't agree either about raising MP1 with 44. It seems pretty much suicidal. I will call a raise for set value and that's it but if I start open raise with any PP I will get trouble IMO. specially 44, might lose some eventual Set vs Set.

      I would raise with PPs on Late positions and MP3 most of the time.

      Flop : I guess I should of only called his raise and bet hard on the turn to make fold any remaining FD cards possible. Then I could hope he is on AQ or something.

      On another side, I agree with duud that says it looks strange that I limp preflop and starts betting like crazy....should I really raise with any PP ?

      Can't wait to see what judge has to say about this.
    • Duudalinja
      Duudalinja
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.12.2009 Posts: 1,030
      I made that point about low pp and raising them because if you always open limp with low pp it can become really exploitable and may influence your opponents decisions a lot. And as you see in this example, if you hit - it's hard to extract value because it's just looks strong - limp/call pre, donk/raise or check/raise on flop. You can't raise 44 (which stands for all low pp) just for value, but open limping with it sucks IMHO.
      You may limp behind if some one already limped, you don't have to raise him ofc.
      Just my humble opinion. :)
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      You will often find the following 2 situations:

      1. You open raise 44, a guy with 66 calls for set value. Board is K73 rainbow. You cbet and take it down.

      2.You open raise 44, someone with AQ calls. Board is Q47 rainbow. You cbet he raises or at least calls, drawing almost dead.

      If they start playing back at you, mix it up. Limp/call, open fold some PP OOP if you have aggro players on your left, it's not a rule to open raise PPs, it's just something I do and has worked for me so far.

      Oh, and if you cbet bluff and get a call you know you are done with the hand, no tough decisions...
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      I also prefer raise first in any hand that I decide to play, that also is for any pp
      Since if you limp/call it is very easy to barrel off your hand or if you show any aggression then it is also very easy to get rid of overpairs
      as played: I think donk lead and 3-bet is fine. he is often raising there with overpairs and draws, sometimes also bluffs. So if he has smt, he should stack off there
    • stevegold87
      stevegold87
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.06.2009 Posts: 2,640
      Originally posted by Kaitz20
      I also prefer raise first in any hand that I decide to play, that also is for any pp
      Since if you limp/call it is very easy to barrel off your hand or if you show any aggression then it is also very easy to get rid of overpairs
      as played: I think donk lead and 3-bet is fine. he is often raising there with overpairs and draws, sometimes also bluffs. So if he has smt, he should stack off there
      I will definaly raise my PP now, thanks