Falling Apart

    • Navrark
      Navrark
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.01.2010 Posts: 313
      Greetings,

      Earlier this year I was playing a lot of Poker. I felt that I was playing pretty well, making smart Folds, reading opponents well and having lots of discipline. I was making some pretty good coin playing Sit and Gos as well. But then I stopped giving so much time to Poker as my focus was elsewhere. I think I had a bit of a losing streak and that may have been one reason why I lost interest in Poker.

      Anyway, I've been trying to get serious about Poker again, but with disastrous results. Hands that I know I shouldn't play, I play. I make calls when I know that I am beaten (Buddy put out a massive raise in early position today. I knew he had AA but I called with QQ and got burnt). I just don't understand what's going on in my head! I also have lost a lot of the aggression that I had in my game. I used to have a strong focus, that I would rather take down a small pot on the Flop than lose a large pot on the River. But lately I get a good hand and try to slow play and I get burnt on the River.

      I'm playing NL Cash right now. Even at NL2 I'm making horrible decisions and my stats are going down the toilet. I've probably now officially become a losing player long term at Full Tilt.

      I'd like to turn things around, but I'm not sure how to do it. HELP!!!

      How can I regain my composure and turn myself into a winning player again? I do believe that I am on a losing streak now as I've had a lot of hands go against me. But the losing streak is the least of my problems, it's my stupid play that's killing me. I was up to $75 from my original $50, but am now at $50.10 (I made some easy money fast playing a little bit of Rush Poker which is why I'm above $50 still).

      I need a step by step to get this turned around. Maybe I should go back to Fixed Limit or Sit and Gos. I just don't know.

      Thanks,

      Navrark.
  • 22 replies
    • luitzen
      luitzen
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.04.2009 Posts: 664
      My first assessment is that you've never been good at poker, that you got lucky in those first couple of hands you played. I might be wrong, though. and you may need to regain your previous mindset.

      Don't do good lay-downs, use software to determine your opponents' range and play them. Sometimes you may face a stronger hand and lose a pot, no big deal. Poker is about winning money, not about doing fancy moves such as winning pots by 4-betting nothing or do good lay-downs.

      Find the right table. You want two very tight players to your left and a couple of players who want to give you their money to the right. Play aggressively and tight but don't overdo either one of them.

      I'll say this again; playing poker is not about making fancy moves, but about making money. If a player keeps 3-betting you, don't try to make him pay for that, just find another table. I don't know which platform you're playing, but sites like Pokerstars and FullTilt have plenty of tables with people who don't know how to treat their money.

      Maybe we can play a session together next week. Let me know if you're interested. I'm playing NL5 on FullTilt, at the moment (probably NL10 somewhere tomorrow).
    • Navrark
      Navrark
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.01.2010 Posts: 313
      LOL, I knew someone would come in and say I was never good at Poker to begin with.

      I know I used to be better than this. I used to take everything into account before making a call. I used to remember what happened pre-flop and take that into account. Now I'm just winging it all the time.

      Look at this poor play below. I had like 4 to 1 odds on the first call, 3 to 1 on the second and 3 to 1 on the last. But how dumb? I clearly should have been playing for 2pair odds. I used to see it that way. I might have called him on the Flop in the past, but certainly not to the end. But here I am playing like a complete Donut-Head!

      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.01/$0.02 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)

      Known players:
      MP1:
      $2.34
      MP2:
      $0.87
      MP3:
      $2.00
      CO (Hero):
      $4.44
      BU:
      $1.94
      SB:
      $2.00
      BB:
      $2.42
      UTG1:
      $1.22
      UTG2:
      $3.11


      Preflop: Hero is CO with A, 6.
      5 folds, Hero raises to $0.08, BU raises to $0.14, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.06.

      Flop: ($0.31) 8, 6, K (2 players)
      Hero bets $0.20, BU raises to $0.40, Hero calls $0.20.

      Turn: ($1.11) 4 (2 players)
      Hero checks, BU bets $0.42, Hero calls $0.42.

      River: ($1.95) 2 (2 players)
      Hero checks, BU bets $0.98(All-In), Hero calls $0.98.

      Final Pot: $3.91.
      Results follow:

      Hero shows a pair of sixs(A 6).
      BU shows a pair of queens(Q Q).

      BU wins with a pair of queens(Q Q).
    • Lizocain
      Lizocain
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.06.2009 Posts: 173
      read more articles, dont play a A6, what u gonna do there? A flop go broke vs higher A or make them fold a non ace hand? if u gonna play A6 u need to have insane fishes on tables..learn more learn..and maybe then try again.
    • luitzen
      luitzen
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.04.2009 Posts: 664
      I think you should have folded your hand after the 3-bet (dependent on his 3-bet range) and bet/fold or check/fold the flop. Then you would only have lost 34cts.

      I don't whether you just doubled up, but you should leave the table if you doubled up, when the blinds come to you.

      And don't worry, I wasn't a good player either one year ago. Last couple of months I made most of my money by winning one MTT and breaking even with bonuses while playing SnGs. Earlier this week I returned to FullTilt ring games and now I really have an edge over my opponents.
    • Wurble
      Wurble
      Silver
      Joined: 04.04.2009 Posts: 456
      The raise and call were fine imo but what range did you have villain on after the flop and what on earth went through your head that made you think this would be a good time to play for stacks?

      Stop playing, re-read ALL articles including the psychology stuff and watch all of the video's. Do that over and over for a week then start playing again.

      If still no improvement in your play (not necessarily results) then you have serious issues.
    • edi9999
      edi9999
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.11.2008 Posts: 1,387
      I think A6o is a pretty bad hand for raising preflop. It's maybe the worst A that exists, because with A2,A3,A4,A5 you have at least one straight potential.

      Train your preflop play and postflop play.
    • occipital
      occipital
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.11.2009 Posts: 37
      you´re the first to admit that you are not playing your A game, so I would suggest that you take a break, read some books and some articles and then return to the tables. Whenever I have a downswing, I always go back to 9man-sits, only two tables. You play less, if you lose you lose less, and playing sits always gives me back my confidence levels.

      About the hand. Raising A6 raise in the CO doesn´t mean he wanted to play this hand to the end. I probably wouldn´t do it but is doesn´t shock me all that much. Neither the call from the button, depending on range he may well be ahead and let´s hope for a super flop. What I don´t like is the play after the flop. When he raises you after the flop, you know you´re beat. When you check on turn you´re saying you don´t have a King and he only bets one third of the pot, meaning that he probably doesn´t have a K aswell. At this time I gave him Jacks or 10s. The worst part of the play is the call on the river. It´s not about what you have, it´s what could you beat on that board.
    • nefarious26
      nefarious26
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 413
      check calling your chips away in this spot is pretty bad, you don't need me to tell you that,
      ok so you call the min 3bet but you only have Ace 6 and you have been by your own admission playing bad, your confidence seems pretty low if i were you i would go back to basics and tighten up, there is nothing wrong with raising A6 in late position but if you get resistance its easy to let it go you dont have to try to win every hand you play
      by the sounds of what you say you have a good understanding of the game but you are just not thinking about what you are doing and just clicking buttons and hoping for the best
      At those micro stakes you are not going to get anywhere fast so just play well grind it out and become a better player,
      this is a learning experience and at those stakes it will not cost you a lot of money for putting what you learn in to practise
      good luck and play the best game you can
    • Tampaloeres81
      Tampaloeres81
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.03.2009 Posts: 1,416
      Originally posted by nefarious26
      check calling your chips away in this spot is pretty bad, you don't need me to tell you that,
      ok so you call the min 3bet but you only have Ace 6 and you have been by your own admission playing bad, your confidence seems pretty low if i were you i would go back to basics and tighten up, there is nothing wrong with raising A6 in late position but if you get resistance its easy to let it go you dont have to try to win every hand you play
      by the sounds of what you say you have a good understanding of the game but you are just not thinking about what you are doing and just clicking buttons and hoping for the best
      At those micro stakes you are not going to get anywhere fast so just play well grind it out and become a better player,
      this is a learning experience and at those stakes it will not cost you a lot of money for putting what you learn in to practise
      good luck and play the best game you can
      Solid advice here :f_thumbsup:
    • luitzen
      luitzen
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.04.2009 Posts: 664
      Originally posted by occipital
      you´re the first to admit that you are not playing your A game, so I would suggest that you take a break, read some books and some articles and then return to the tables. Whenever I have a downswing, I always go back to 9man-sits, only two tables. You play less, if you lose you lose less, and playing sits always gives me back my confidence levels.

      About the hand. Raising A6 raise in the CO doesn´t mean he wanted to play this hand to the end. I probably wouldn´t do it but is doesn´t shock me all that much. Neither the call from the button, depending on range he may well be ahead and let´s hope for a super flop. What I don´t like is the play after the flop. When he raises you after the flop, you know you´re beat. When you check on turn you´re saying you don´t have a King and he only bets one third of the pot, meaning that he probably doesn´t have a K aswell. At this time I gave him Jacks or 10s. The worst part of the play is the call on the river. It´s not about what you have, it´s what could you beat on that board.
      I disagree. I think A6o is a very decent had to play in late position or even from MP3. This does depend on your opponents, though, and if you don't have any stats of the players on your left, it's often best to fold it.
    • conall88
      conall88
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2009 Posts: 1,715
      luitzen, two things:

      you need to be able to take criticism if ur asking for advice.
      A6o isn't great even in LP esp full ring.


      playing weak hands against fish, essentially in micro stakes in general up to NL20 is pretty much not required. players aren't smart enough to observe your hands and adjust, so just play tight and straight forward!

      avoid other TAGs whenever you have a choice.


      make use of the starting hand charts, esp the silver one when u get there.
    • luitzen
      luitzen
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.04.2009 Posts: 664
      I'm not the one asking for advice, I was earlier on giving advice and improving advice, because, contrary to the post I quoted, I do think that there are definitely situations in which A6o can be played profitably, but when one doesn't have any reads on his or her opponents it is indeed wiser to not play this hand.
    • conall88
      conall88
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2009 Posts: 1,715
      there are situations where playing 73o are profitable. its just not something you would advocate lightly with micros.
    • Wurble
      Wurble
      Silver
      Joined: 04.04.2009 Posts: 456
      Originally posted by conall88
      there are situations where playing 73o are profitable. its just not something you would advocate lightly with micros.
      You can't compare 73o to A6o, that's just silly. I believe the A6o raise was a steal and the 3-bet was called because of it's pathetic size. This is absolutely fine at micro's. The problem is the post flop play.
    • luitzen
      luitzen
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.04.2009 Posts: 664
      Originally posted by conall88
      there are situations where playing 73o are profitable. its just not something you would advocate lightly with micros.
      Which is not what I was doing, I clearly added that precaution should be taken when playing A6o.
    • occipital
      occipital
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.11.2009 Posts: 37
      Originally posted by luitzen
      Originally posted by occipital
      you´re the first to admit that you are not playing your A game, so I would suggest that you take a break, read some books and some articles and then return to the tables. Whenever I have a downswing, I always go back to 9man-sits, only two tables. You play less, if you lose you lose less, and playing sits always gives me back my confidence levels.

      About the hand. Raising A6 raise in the CO doesn´t mean he wanted to play this hand to the end. I probably wouldn´t do it but is doesn´t shock me all that much. Neither the call from the button, depending on range he may well be ahead and let´s hope for a super flop. What I don´t like is the play after the flop. When he raises you after the flop, you know you´re beat. When you check on turn you´re saying you don´t have a King and he only bets one third of the pot, meaning that he probably doesn´t have a K aswell. At this time I gave him Jacks or 10s. The worst part of the play is the call on the river. It´s not about what you have, it´s what could you beat on that board.
      I disagree. I think A6o is a very decent had to play in late position or even from MP3. This does depend on your opponents, though, and if you don't have any stats of the players on your left, it's often best to fold it.
      but you disagree with what man? I´m not criticizing the pre-flop play, I´m criticizing the way the hand was played post-flop.
    • Navrark
      Navrark
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.01.2010 Posts: 313
      Originally posted by Lizocain
      read more articles, dont play a A6, what u gonna do there? A flop go broke vs higher A or make them fold a non ace hand? if u gonna play A6 u need to have insane fishes on tables..learn more learn..and maybe then try again.
      Thanks for the reply... but... that was a Blind Steal attempt.
    • Navrark
      Navrark
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.01.2010 Posts: 313
      I agree with your assessment.

      Congrats to you on your new-found success!

      Originally posted by luitzen
      I think you should have folded your hand after the 3-bet (dependent on his 3-bet range) and bet/fold or check/fold the flop. Then you would only have lost 34cts.

      I don't whether you just doubled up, but you should leave the table if you doubled up, when the blinds come to you.

      And don't worry, I wasn't a good player either one year ago. Last couple of months I made most of my money by winning one MTT and breaking even with bonuses while playing SnGs. Earlier this week I returned to FullTilt ring games and now I really have an edge over my opponents.
    • Navrark
      Navrark
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.01.2010 Posts: 313
      Thanks for the reply. What I decided to do was to admit that I suck, and mentally start over. I know that I didn't suck 5 months ago, but I do now. Therefore I just took the pressure off myself to succeed, pretended I am starting over, got myself a new Full Tilt Avatar and am playing like it's day 1 at PokerStrategy again.

      So far I have had three tiny losing sessions. Instead of concentrating on my results though, I rated how I played in each session on a score of 1-10. The first session I rated myself 6/10, second session 8/10 and today 9/10. I'm a lot more relaxed and not making dumb decisions, I'm just getting screwed on the River, like losing my Q3 in the BB good for 2pair to Q5 in EP (he got the 5 on the River).

      Thanks to everyone for your replies!

      Nav

      Originally posted by Wurble
      The raise and call were fine imo but what range did you have villain on after the flop and what on earth went through your head that made you think this would be a good time to play for stacks?

      Stop playing, re-read ALL articles including the psychology stuff and watch all of the video's. Do that over and over for a week then start playing again.

      If still no improvement in your play (not necessarily results) then you have serious issues.
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