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[NL2-NL10] NL10- Dont know what to think about this one

    • Mystrapoker
      Joined: 19.09.2007 Posts: 80
      Known players: (for a description of vp$ip, pfr, ats, folded bb, af, wts, wsd or hands click here)     

      0.05/0.10 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grabem 1.9 by

      Preflop: Hero is SB with T:diamond: , A:diamond: . MP3 posts a blind of $0.10.
      4 folds, MP3 checks, CO folds, BU calls $0.10, Hero calls $0.05, BB checks.

      Flop: ($0.40) Q:club: , Q:diamond: , K:diamond: (4 players)
      Hero checks, BB bets $0.20, MP3 folds, BU calls $0.20, Hero calls $0.20.

      Turn: ($1.00) A:spade: (3 players)
      Hero checks, BB checks, BU bets $0.30, Hero calls $0.30, BB calls $0.30.

      River: ($1.90) 7:heart: (3 players)
      Hero checks, BB bets $1, BU raises to $2.00, Hero folds, BB calls $1.00.

      Final Pot: $5.90

      Results follow (highlight to see):
      BU shows [ Ks, 8h ] two pairs, Kings and Queens
      BB shows [ Qh, Jh ] three of a kind, Queens
      BB wins $5.61 USD with three of a kind, Queens.

      Normally I would put this in my poker log as an error that costs me 0.50$, but not on the grounds of the call, because Imho paying 0.05$ with ATs is very justified.

      But looking at that hand again, I wanted either an ace or a spade. Chasing the flush and the ace wasn't justified anymore on the turn I think. But on the flop, I think it was justified because of implied pot odds. If I did get my fullhouse or my flush, I would probably have emptied BB and BU for a pot of about 6.50$. So calling 0.30$ to win 6.50$ seemed justified.

      Anyway, my question is, when should I consider I did an error?
      When I called as the SB? (0.55$ error)
      When I called on the flop? (0.50$ error)
      When I called on the turn? (0.20$ error)

      I consider a play an "error" when my equity is negative and that I called anyway. I figured out that my chase on the turn and on the river was a slight ev- play, but only slightly.

      (Yeah, I realize that if I had raised instead of being 'passive' and just calling, I would have won the pot BEFORE the flop.)
  • 4 replies
    • Middelemiel
      Joined: 10.04.2007 Posts: 19
      WTF about implied odds and SSS????? You have implied odds of only 10:1 here because you have to call 0,20 to win his $2 at most... You have 12 outs on the flop for the straight either the flush, so normally this might be a raise/push as there's about 48% to make the flush or the straight. But the board is paired, so there is quite a chance that you are drawing dead to a full house..

      So you call flop, I would've raised it, but okay, you call. Then there comes an ace on the turn. There's already pretty much hands that have you beat now, as you have top pair with a weak kicker (don't look upon it as two pair, cause everybody had already two queens). Any Q, AJ, AQ, AK, all have you beat. I don't like the turn call here. Either fold (best option) or push, creating some fold equity and hope another ace, diamond or J will come. I don't think you get enough odds to flatcall here, and even if you call you don't know what to do on the river. Yeah fold, but that's pretty weak.

      I think the turn is an obvious fold... But even better was push/fold flop, not just call the flop... Your goal is to get it allin remember, not "call and wait what cards will come".

      I don't talk about the preflop play, because according to SSS this was an obvious fold. But I agree, it's not that bad to play it preflop, sometimes you can do this.
      My 2cents :)
    • Berliner1982
      Joined: 12.07.2006 Posts: 5,644
      I would bet out here ($0.30), because unless somebody is holding QQ, KK, AA, AK, AQ, AJ, KQ (which is very unlikey since the pot is unraised) or a Q in general you have a monster draw here with your Straight-/Flushdraw. You have 9 Outs for the Nutflush, 4 more Outs for the Straight and 3 more Outs for you Ace for Top Two Pair.

      So thats gives you 16 Outs, meaning you have an huge Equity of Pot. So bet out here and also find out if their is a Queen out their. Because a Q has to raise to protect the hand, since their is a Straightdraw and Flushdraw possible. And even against a Reraise you can go All-In with your monsterdraw.

      Against a Q you have a few less outs, since his holding will be QJ, QT or Q9. So you only have 7 Outs for the Flush and maybe 3 Outs for the J, giving you Ten Outs.

      But also a King could raise here to protect on this limit. Against a King you still have 16 Outs, so a monsterdraw. Both kind of hands that would raise here put together should give you 13 Outs in average. So here on the Flop I go All-In if I can.
    • howard182
      Joined: 30.10.2006 Posts: 416
      Checking the flop is actually quite good, but your intention shouldn't be to check/call. It should be to check/raise all in. You have a combination draw and have good equity against anything but KK, KQ and QQ. You're in a tough spot if you catch an A (as you did in this hand) and your draw's equity grows worse with each street so getting it in on the flop for showdown and fold equity is the best option.
    • Mystrapoker
      Joined: 19.09.2007 Posts: 80
      "WTF about implied odds and SSS????? You have implied odds of only 10:1 here because you have to call 0,20 to win his $2 at most".

      Im quite sure that could have trapped both players to go all-in. Even the guy with 2 pairs, one of which was on the board.

      So it would have given me a pot of 4.30$ (the slice of both their stacks I can get with 2.15$) + the money already in the pot. So in my head, when I made that call, my implied odds were ~22:1.